Routes - Points change that are not intended to change

[RDS]

I have 28 points on my layout, which is made up of 4 Loops with 12 Sidings in the middle of the inner Loop.  All my points work perfectly when operated from my Elite or from Railmaster, either by selecting the point on the Track Layout or from within a Program.

 

I have created 22 routes, with names such as 'Loop1', 'Loop2' etc or 'Loop1 to Loop2'.  The 'Loop1' route is programmed as follows: 1R (Point 1 Right), 3L, 12L, 20R, 27L.  However, when selecting the 'Loop1' route, the following point actions occur in this sequence: 26R, 1R, 3L, 4R, 9L, 27R, 25L, 28L, 17R, 3L, 28L, 25L, 27L, 12L, 20R, 19R, 18L, 1L.

 

This incorrect sequence is repeated absolutely consistently, each time 'Loop1' is selected.  It may or not be relevant but the additional incorrect point movements in the 'Loop1' route, are all contained within one of my other Routes that has 'Loop1' somewhere in the title. (For example 4R appears in my route named 'Sdng1 to Loop1'

 

Has anyone else experienced this problem, which results in a number of the points being set incorrectly and is it likely to be my naming convention that has caused this.

 

(Post thread writing note: I will try recreating the 'Loop1' route with a completely unique name).

[96RAF]

Have you right-clicked the errant point(s) in Design Mode RDS and looked to see if by some chance they have the exact desired route included in their properties.

If not then I think you may have hit the nail on the head and found a glitch in RM when you say a route seems to be picking up any route-name with your desired route name as part of it.

[RDS]

... if by some chance they have the exact desired route included in their properties ...

 

 Yes, I have checked it fully and the program is exactly correct.  Hopefully, HRMS may comment.

 

[RDS]

As suggested in my Original post above, I have now created a new route with a totally unique name and it worked perfectly (I will call this route x).  However, if I then create another route with a name that includes the unique name (say 'x to y'), route 'x' does not work correctly anymore but picks up another point from the route 'x to y' set.  If I then create a 3rd new route called just 'y', it picks up all the points from 'x to y' as well as the ones it should pick up.

 

I now believe this to be a bug in the program that results in incorrect point changes if a route name contains the same word as has been used in another route.  The additional incorrect point changes appear to be entirely consistent because so far they have occurred every time the route is selected.

[Fishmanoz]

Suggest you email them RDS.

[96RAF]

Interesting as previously I had routes set up on my end to end layout from each of the dead end lines at one end to each of the dead end lines at the other end - (crossover permutations dependant of course).

That meant several of the routes had the names of various ends in their title, exactly as you are saying. They worked perfectly then but I haven't used them for a while so will have to check if they still work now at Rev 2 of V1.61 then report back to RM if it has become a bug and also confirm on here all is well or not.

[96RAF]

Update to above:

I have manually cycled all my routes from the RM startup default point selection and they behave exactly as I would expect. Only the routed points change. I do not have routing included in any of my programs, and wouldn't know if this is even possible without reading the manual again.

I then tried each route again after first reversing the selection of each associated point to make observation of the route sequence easier to follow, i.e. if route sets a point to diverge I put it first to straight and vice-versa.

As my points are operated by relays from the DCC pulse I can hear the double tap from RM again proving on my setup at least that all is well. There are no bogie point selections happening on any route back or forth.

That would indicate to me that RM is solid with no bug. Feedback from other users would help confirm or refute this for HRMS.

[RDS]

... That would indicate to me that RM is solid with no bug ...

Hi RAF96.  Thank you for taking the time to check this.  I am pleased your layout works correctly but slightly disappointed that the problem is not repeatable.  This morning I have tried adding a hyphen instead of the spaces in my route names and the problem is still there.  I have also created a new route with a completely unique name (ie a word that does not appear in any of my route names) and it works perfectly.  

[96RAF]

@RDS

I've just checked the formatting of my route names and it is just plain typing with single spaces between words and hyphens like below. The hyphen simply to avoid me having to type the word to .

Lim  P1  -  Moni  Goods  (i.e Lim space P1 space hyphen space Moni space Goods)

Moni  2  -  Lim  2

Pilot  2  -  Shed  1

This is how they appear both in the point right click box and in the route listing box at trackplan top right hand corner (the one with the orange up and down arrows that allows you to make the box show more or less routes).

I never even thought about making the route name all_one_word as nowadays Windows allows common verbiage filenames and its in my pc mindset that RM would automatically follow convention.

[Smithy58]

One thing I have found is that sometime you might have the  point symbols sitting on top of another which I discovered by chance when I moved the symbol to one side, I was having an issue with the points not doing as they were supposed to do, of course I was changing a point that wasn't being addressed .  Don't know if this is any help just thought u should be aware.

colin

[Fishmanoz]

Colin, you can fix this by adding extra track pieces between so your points aren't on top of each other.

[RDS]

... you can fix this by adding extra track pieces between so your points aren't on top of each other...

 

 I think Colin is referring to the fact that it is possible to place the Red & Green buttons on top of other Red & Green buttons and therefore the actions that are defined for the buttons 'underneath' are seen by RailMaster but not obvious to the user.

 

[Smithy58]

... you can fix this by adding extra track pieces between so your points aren't on top of each other...

 

 I think Colin is referring to the fact that it is possible to place the Red & Green buttons on top of other Red & Green buttons and therefore the actions that are defined for the buttons 'underneath' are seen by RailMaster but not obvious to the user.

 

 

 

 

[Smithy58]

Yes because it was extremely frustrating trying to work out why Tthe points weren't operating as they should, it was only when I decided to try doing it again from scratch that this transpired.

[Fishmanoz]

And I did of course mean your point buttons aren't on top of each other.  The manual says not to put points in adjacent squares at all to avoid this but you can depending on whether orientation makes the buttons coincide or not.  Connect 2 points toe end to each other and you have a problem, heel to toe and you don't. Similarly, points immediately above each other are a problem if both toes are either left or right end, but fine if one is to the left and the other to the right.  Simple really if you think about it.

[96RAF]

RM normally kicks up a warning if point buttons are going to clash due to points being placed too close together. All you have to do is spread them out a bit so any points buttons are in the clear.

I ahve no idea of the operating logic behind th ewat points operate in RM but if they rely on the buttons sending data then maybe this is the reason those particular routes are operating in error.

[St1ngr4y]

... That would indicate to me that RM is solid with no bug ...

Hi RAF96.  Thank you for taking the time to check this.  I am pleased your layout works correctly but slightly disappointed that the problem is not repeatable.  This morning I have tried adding a hyphen instead of the spaces in my route names and the problem is still there.  I have also created a new route with a completely unique name (ie a word that does not appear in any of my route names) and it works perfectly.  

 Hi Dave,

I have created a few routes with names similar to yours, and I can confirm that those names which are a single word e.g. "Loop1", pick up other points from routes which contain "Loop1" in their name. The reason RAF hasn't seen the problem is because he doesn't have any one-word route names where that word is contained in other names.

 

@HRMS - as a separate issue - would it be possible to record point firings in a meaningful message in the LOG.TXT file?

 

Ray

 

[96RAF]

The reason RAF hasn't seen the problem is because he doesn't have any one-word route names where that word is contained in other names.

 

That makes sense Ray - I hadn't spotted that. Its only the odd few route points that are single words, most are 2 words.. 

[RDS]

... which are a single word e.g. "Loop1", pick up other points from routes which contain "Loop1" in their name ... 

 

Hi Ray

Thank you for checking this.  This morning I have renamed one of my single word routes, just by putting a space in it, so 'Loop4', now reads 'Loop 4' and it works perfectly.  I am 100% sure now that any route name that has a sequence of characters that are included exactly in any other route name, will pick up extra (incorrect) point changes, from the other route(s).  For example, a route called 'Loop4', will incorrectly pick up point changes from a route named 'Loop1 to Loop4', or 'Loop4 to Loop1' etc.

 

 

[96RAF]

Seems like we have collectively got to the bottom of it - well done chaps - but I would like HRMS to please explain why that happens.

And why then doesn't it go belly up on the single word 'Loop' in any route - I presume purely because there isn't a stand alone route called just 'Loop'.

[RDS]

... why then doesn't it go belly up on the single word 'Loop' in any route ...

There isn't just that single word on my layout.  I did try it with a route called 'Shed' and one called 'Station'.  It was fine until I introduced a route called 'Station-to-Shed' and then numerous extra point changes were introduced to both the 'Shed' route and the 'Station' one.  It is not just a single word route that suffers.  It is any route where the complete name (sequence of characters) are contained anywhere within another route name, even if they are not separate words in the other route, as in the 'Shed' and 'Station' example above.  I have emailed HRMS as suggested by Fishy and I they asked for more information.  I have sent the information requested so I am sure that one of the HRMS programers will solve it.