Bachmann/Farish Class 350 Lights

[Matt Boot]

I recieved a Bachmann/Graham Farish class 350 Desiro this morning. It's a smashing train, and it runs brilliantly. the only problem is the lights. Which ever way the train moves, the lights do the opposite (so the white lights are at the back and the red lights at the front). Also, on the back, as well as the white lights, the red lights also come on, so at the back of the train, both the white and red lights are on, and at the front, only the red lights are on. The lights are dim until power is applied, which is when they go brighter and the destination board lights up. I can't work out whats wrong. I tried changing the adress of each decoder (There are three in the train), but I've had no luck.

If it matters, I'm using the Hornby Select controller.

 

Help would be much appreciated right now!

[Chrissaf]

Matt,

There was another post recently about a loco with reversed directional lights, a solution was posted but unfortunately for you it involved amending certain decoder CV values. Your Select can't do CV reading / writing, except limited main config items such as, for example, the decoder address. Can you access (temporarily) a more advanced controller just to get your loco re-configured. For example a friend or club or shop.

.

The other post mentioned, just for reference and purely as an example guide to the principle of changing directional lighting is here. You would need to consult your own specific loco decoder instruction sheet to see if any particular CVs are appropriate.

[Matt Boot]

Matt,

There was another post recently about a loco with reversed directional lights, a solution was posted but unfortunately for you it involved amending certain decoder CV values. Your Select can't do CV reading / writing, except limited main config items such as, for example, the decoder address. Can you access (temporarily) a more advanced controller just to get your loco re-configured. For example a friend or club or shop.

.

The other post mentioned, just for reference and purely as an example guide to the principle of changing directional lighting is here. You would need to consult your own specific loco decoder instruction sheet to see if any particular CVs are appropriate.

 

On some instructions, I think it mentioned that the rear driving car's decoder must have a value of 1 in CV29 or something like that. It's a bit disspointing to know that I can't fix this, as it was a loco that I always wanted, even when I used to model 00 gauge. I unfortunately don't have any model clubs anywhere near where i live. Or model shops for that matter. Oh well, at least it runs I suppose. I shal have to look into it all. Do you know anny controller capable of the whole CV reading/writing thing?

Thanks for your help,

Matt

[Matt Boot]

Matt,

There was another post recently about a loco with reversed directional lights, a solution was posted but unfortunately for you it involved amending certain decoder CV values. Your Select can't do CV reading / writing, except limited main config items such as, for example, the decoder address. Can you access (temporarily) a more advanced controller just to get your loco re-configured. For example a friend or club or shop.

.

The other post mentioned, just for reference and purely as an example guide to the principle of changing directional lighting is here. You would need to consult your own specific loco decoder instruction sheet to see if any particular CVs are appropriate.

On some instructions, I think it mentioned that the rear driving car's decoder must have a value of 1 into CV29 or something like that. It's a bit dissapointing to know that I can't fix this, as it was a loco that I always wanted, even when I used to model 00 gauge. I unfortunately don't have any model clubs anywhere near where i live. Or model shops for that matter. Oh well, at least it runs I suppose. I shal have to look into it all. Do you know anny controller capable of the whole CV reading/writing thing?

Thanks for your help,

Matt

 

 

[Chrissaf]

Do you know anny controller capable of the whole CV reading/writing thing?

.

• Hornby Elite as a standalone controller, optionally with RailMaster PC control.
• RailMaster eLink combo. eLink has no knobs thus you HAVE to have it controlled via a PC.
• Most other controller brands have CV Writing / Reading capabilities, but not neccessarily their basic models. You would need to download their on-line manuals and check before committing to purchase. As a rule of thumb, if it has a LCD screen then it is likely to be CV compatible. You need a LCD screen (or PC screen) to display the read CV values. Of course, the Select is an exception to this particular 'rule of thumb' as it has a LCD screen but is not CV friendly.

[Chrissaf]

Matt,

If you're brave, you might consider this drastic action. Take the loco and dummy cars apart and re-wire the lighting LEDs so what is red becomes white and what is white becomes red. Not for the faint hearted. The potential scope for a catastrophe is very high.

[Matt Boot]

Matt,

If you're brave, you might consider this drastic action. Take the loco and dummy cars apart and re-wire the lighting LEDs so what is red becomes white and what is white becomes red. Not for the faint hearted. The potential scope for a catastrophe is very high.

 

 I'm not sure if I'd want to risk that. I don't think I've ever taken a loco apart for this type of thing in my life. Also, I wouldn't know where to start. I'll probably just have to put up with this rather irritating error. Maybe one day I'll be able to get my hands on a more advanced DCC controller to fix the issue. 

 

[Chrissaf]

I'm not sure if I'd want to risk that

.

I don't blame you for that. I'm pretty adept at wielding a soldering iron and a multi-meter, but even I wouldn't fancy doing that on an N gauge (I'm assuming N gauge from what you wrote on your backscene post).

[2e0dtoeric]

Going a bit off-topic - I've just sent for an OO desiro four-car set, because the price was discounted, and there was a free postage offer for this weekend as well, even though it will really be out of place on my layout, as there is no catenary! (If I can change the leading coupling, I'll let it push a 'dead' diesel around, instead).

Then - at the end of the pay routine, a 'pop' up says sorry, this package is overweight for the free postage, and it will have to go via courier!

Sigh!

[Fishmanoz]

Matt, given you just received it and it clearly doesn't work correctly, I'd be sending it back.

[Matt Boot]

Matt, given you just received it and it clearly doesn't work correctly, I'd be sending it back.

 

 

 I've pretty much sorted it. one end has perfectly working lights, the other end has working lights, but the opposite colour still glows dimly (For example, if I was running this end with the white lights on, you would still faintly be able to see the red lights on), but to be honest, I'm happy that I got this far. The front end may look slightly unusual, but only if looked at pretty close up. Runs fine anyway, and I can change the lights directions too.

[Fishmanoz]

How did you manage to fix it?

[cas_ir]

Hi a couple of things to check if you want try and sort the glowing light issue.

1. Check the alignment of the two circuit boards in the end carrage, my on my model the board on the chassis was slightly out of square, the board makes contact with the light board in the top of the body of the carrage with small metal fingers to transfer the signals.

2. Try swapping the decoders from the end cars (sorry I know it means taking the car apart which is a real pain) it may be a leaky output transistor on the decoder, if the fault move to the opposite end then replace the decoder.

[Matt Boot]

Hi a couple of things to check if you want try and sort the glowing light issue.

1. Check the alignment of the two circuit boards in the end carrage, my on my model the board on the chassis was slightly out of square, the board makes contact with the light board in the top of the body of the carrage with small metal fingers to transfer the signals.

2. Try swapping the decoders from the end cars (sorry I know it means taking the car apart which is a real pain) it may be a leaky output transistor on the decoder, if the fault move to the opposite end then replace the decoder.

 

 I'll give these a try. Thanks for the suggestion ;)

 

[Matt Boot]

How did you manage to fix it?

 

 

 It's not fixed as such, just greatly improved. I just named each decoder with a seperate adress

e.g. Lights 1=01

       Lights 2=02

       Motor   =03

There's still a glow from the "opposite colour of lights" if you know what I mean, and it's a bit of a pain when you want to change direction as you have to select each end of the train to switch the lights seperately, but it's an improvement from all of the lights being on at both ends all of the time. 

[Matt Boot]

How did you manage to fix it?

 

 

 It's not fixed as such, just greatly improved. I just named each decoder with a seperate adress

e.g. Lights 1=01

       Lights 2=02

       Motor   =03

There's still a glow from the "opposite colour of lights" if you know what I mean, and it's a bit of a pain when you want to change direction as you have to select each end of the train to switch the lights seperately, but it's an improvement from all of the lights being on at both ends all of the time. 

[Fishmanoz]

Hi Matt, been thinking about this more and I'm getting more rather than less confused about it.  Let me start by telling you what I found by looking up the item:

 

- For a start, we are talking about a 4-car EMU with the standard arrangement of a power car at one end and a dummy car at the other.

 

- It is supplied originally DCC ready with blanking boards at each end. There is also a third socket in the middle for a sound decoder and room for a speaker.  Not sure if there is a separate DCC fitted model with or without sound, didn't research that far.

 

- The DCC sockets are 6-pin, meaning that it is not possible for example to put the decoder in back-to-front and get weird lighting effects while the train still runs, as you can with 8-pin decoders in OO.

 

- Conventionally, forgetting about the 3rd sound decoder, these are set up with the decoder at each end having the same address and the yellow and white function lights at pins 1 and 2 controlling the lighting.  The white is for forward lights and the yellow for reverse.  The decoder automatically switches these on and off as appropriate depending on which way the train is running.  It does not run both at once.  In the dummy car, the wiring arrangement is reversed between white and yellow such that the rear lights are on running forward and the forward lights on running reversed. the only configuration the user should need to do is to set the desired address in the decoders and everything should work properly.  The sound decoder will not be connected to lights at all.

 

- As has been mentioned previously, there are CV settings allowing you to reverse the light convention.  Further, you normally have to set 128 speed steps in CV29 before the lights work at all.  This is the default for this CV in most decoders.  It is bit 2 in the deocder so the decimal value is 2 (not 1 as you mentioned above).  All of this is irrelevant with a Select as you can't change any of these CVs.  Also, if someone has been changing them before you got the train, you csnt set them back to factory default to get rid of any funny settings as you also can't write 8 to CV8.

 

Now I come to how you say you've fixed it by giving each decoder a separate address.  Again, forget about the sound decoder, it should not be connected to lights.  The decoder in the power car should be for the motor and the lights on whatever address you give it.  So how did you make these lights work in the correct direction?  I can understand how giving the dummy car a separate address allows you to change its running direction and change the lights, but you would have to do this each time you change the direction the train is running on the power car decoder.

 

So Matt, does what I've said make any sense?  All the info on the train I've given you came from googling its instruction sheet and repeating back what it says.  And tell us more about how you played with those separate addresses to make it work, given I can't see how that can have any effect in the power car, only the dummy car.

 

Finally, did you take the bodies off the power and dummy cars and check alignment of the boards as cas suggested?  This could be very important.  The instruction sheet tells you you do this by easing the body out from the chassis starting in the middle to disconnect the lugs.  

[PJR_slo]

Hi Matt

 

I recently had a Bachmann (Liliput) Flirt 3 (3 car EMU) with the same issue; the red lights at the front of the loco were on continuously.

 

This loco had a 21-pin socket, so I inserted a Hornby Sapphire decoder.  When moving in reverse, it seems that the circuitry managed to pass track voltage to the decoder which "popped" and a puff of smoke appeared.

 

The loco went back for repair; on its return (3 months later) it had not been assembled properly - it took me 2 hours to rectify this as it involved removing bodies etc.  I put another Sapphire inside and put it on the tracks.  Red lights continuously on at the front, decoder "pop" and puff of smoke.

 

Sent back again for refund, which is a shame as it really was a very pretty train.  I lost out about £60 in postage costs, but unfortunately Bachmann don't seem to care about my time and expenses, or the quality of their products and repair service.

 

Peter

[96RAF]

To say nothing of 2 x Sapphires at 35 quid a pop (sorry).

Seriously if the loco is faulty then B'man should be refunding the decoder costs as well as the postage.

[Yelrow]

Hornby are brilliant and very fair about decoder problems. I dont use Bachmann europe, as my locos, are HO, and they have no interest in them. However, Bachmann, US, have also been very fair, replacing a couple of locos. But you have to pay post to US. I dont know if Bachmann, europe pay postage, but on other forums, guys have had problems. Does seem to make Hornby, the best bet. john

[poliss]

I can't see a DCC Fitted option from Bachmann themselves. Did you buy it from a shop?

It sounds like the decoders have been programmed incorrectly. You can't fix the problem using the Select.

[96RAF]

Wandering a bit off topic I know but of interest to people who have installed lights and find them contra the loco direction.

I just installed an Express Models lighting kit my Class 90 (R062/R2110) and also fitted a Sapphire to control the neo magnet converted 3-pole ringfield. Lights were back to front versus loco control - third kit I've had like that. 

CVs 37 & 38 control which way the lights shine on a Sapphire. CV37 value 1 is default and CV38 is value 2 default. Make these 2 and 1 respectively and the lights reverse direction without affecting the motor direction.

BTW the Sapphire also has a motor control algorithm at CV150 just for Lima motors, so I set this to value 1 and the old ringfield with its new magnet is smoothly controllable down to 3/4 MPH via RM.

Happy bunny. Now to dual motor the Class 56 ringfield.

[Fishmanoz]

Just continuing the off-topic briefly, that CV150 algorithm thing sounds like the motor drive part of TTS is more like Sapphire than 8249 as some have suggested.