Elite update 1.42

[96RAF]

I'm presently working direct with AC in attempt to get my bricked spare Elite back on its feet using Win 8.1.

 

I have an Elite that I use for testing and it has purposely been back versioned in XP to trial the new Win 8/8.1 firmware update methodology, but it hasn't worked for me - yet, hence the private consultation with AC.

 

I have provided info to him about the state of my HP desktop machine configuration, running applications, state of the nation, etc and I am presently running through his list of recommended changes in various areas as and when I can, then reporting back.

 

The plan being to ID a root cause for this Win 8 phenomena and either show how to simply work round it or to define a 'Do this and it will be fixed forever and next time' method.

 

I'll let you know how we get on.

[Bulleidboy]

Sorry I have not read all of this thread - but for "normal use" is this upgrade really necessary? I don't use RM or eLinc.

[RB51]

Post #2 gives deatils of what is updated. I have not bothered with the upgrade as

 

a) I dont need the functions referred to

b) it seems very complicated

c) I have no wish to join the "brick layers"

 

I am however very greatful to those more attuned to this sort of techie stuff though (AC, RAF etc.) who are tryting to get to the bottom of it all. It should be easier than some folk are finding it. R-

[96RAF]

Depends where you are starting from BB and what you want to do with your Elite..

V1.3 should be considerred the absolute basic minimum level with v1.42 the preferred level for interface with a PC application such as RM, JMRI or Rocrail, etc or when using an Select as a walkabout controller, especially if the Select is itself not updated, due to the way points addressing is handled between the pair.

As you say you are not interfacing with anything other than your basic track then if your Elite does what you expect of it then press on at whatever rev state you currently have.

[Bulleidboy]

Thanks RogerB and RAF96

I'm at v1.42. I'm at a very early stage and it does everything I want at the moment. My motto "Keep it simple".

I agree with your comments though, that an upgrade should be relatively straightforward.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Sorry I have not read all of this thread - but for "normal use" is this upgrade really necessary? I don't use RM or eLinc.

This particular update has been released simply to iron out a few pieces of code within RM which are not significant enough for it to be given a list of changes like previous and more fuller updates. I have said before that this is a tad like you writing a document in Word and noticing a few little spelling errors and changing them. A fuller update which would warrant some detailing would be the same as that Word document being given new paragraphs or the likes which would be a significant change.

If RM is currently working well on v1.41 and members aren't too bothered about making the change then they can leave it as is until a fuller update is released.

The update itself has not been marked, as far as I am aware, as critical by Hornby so as it is it is there if you want it.

Most of the hassle on here is from the members who find it difficult to install this update because of their system makeup. RM itself and the update are not at fault. Now before you say they are at fault then I would ask those members 'Why does it work on most PC's or laptops without any problem at all?'. That is not a question in which any form is mischief is meant by it... I simply ask that because Hornby themsleves while investigating this would do the same.

AS RAF says I am currently investigating his setup and asking for certain things to be changed before attempting to update his Elite with a solution I will offer at the latter stages of this. Either one of us will report back with that result as he says and hopefully it will be sucessful. If not, we will look at another way to sort this until all fails or is successful.

A long winded answer BB but it is mostly to assist others too so the answer to your question is hang fire if you're not too bothered and more precisely if you are then upgrade. It is not wholly essential.

 

 

[96RAF]

Lets be very carefull not to confuse revision states of the Hornby controllers (Elite and Select and eLink) and the Hornby model railway PC mounted operating application (RM).

 

Each has its own reason for being at the revision state that it is and in some cases the revision state of one has been driven by the revision state of another and are thus interdependant - such as the Elite needs to have the capability to be set into Standard Mode for use with RM and/or to be at Rev state 1.x or 1.y to function correctly with a Select which is at Rev state 1.y or 1.z.

 

The Elite and the Select thus have different operating liaisons depending upon each others revision states, and so on. e.g. the way points addressing is handled.

 

Its just a case of knowing which revision is required on which item for it to interface correctly with any other item for a particular purpose.

 

I wish I could draw up a simple box matrix with ticks and crosses to show these dependencies, but so far the brain has failed to the task. It should be simple but there are too many sides to the box (Elite/Select/eLink/RM). I can do individual box matrices for Elite vs Select, Elite vs RM, etc, etc but not a combined effort.

[Yelrow]

What happened to KIS (keep it simple). All we need is a HRMS,  input to RM, that will allow updates for RM, and Elite. Surely, it cannot be rocket science. john

[96RAF]

Unfortunately John initiating the Elite update is digital mechanical (finger driven) - far less complex than rocket science, which in itself is relatively simple.

[Augustus Caesar]

Hmmm... well, what an error. RM at v1.41 ay? Sorry folks... I should have typed Elite and not RM.

I hope we all know where I was coming from and so soz for any confusion! I must tell myself to sleep the night before I post on here... that's what I get for being tired after a sleepless night and not drinking lots of tea or coffee!!!

Too late to do a complete edit... I'm off to Rome for a sit down in the big Amphitheatre with a large lion for company... who knows - it may bring me back to my senses... lol

Duh!!!

[Fishmanoz]

John, I know you are well aware that, unlike eLink, Elite is a standalone controller and many use it this way without wanting or needing RM.  And it was designed well before RM.  Consequently, it's unrealistic to expect that RM is going to control firmware updates for it, unlike eLink which can only work via RM.

 

You are just going to have to download the update from the site and follow the instructions to start in upgrade mode with delays etc then run the update file.  You don't need to install any drivers, you already have the correct driver installed to use it with RM in the first place.  It's no more difficult than installing the software for any other bit of hardware you buy.  Although remember it sometimes takes a couple of goes to work, mine last worked second time.

 

I seem to remember when you started out with RM, it took us ages to convince you to upgrade RM to latest, you thought all sorts of dire French consequences would have to be dealt with.  There weren't any were there?  There aren't with this using W7 either, as long as you follow the instructions.

 

And if still unsure, you could always ring Mark and get him to walk you through it?

[Yelrow]

Fishy, you will need to adjust your memory. Upgrading RM, was due to location of layout, and lack of wifi through french walls. You will also remember that RAF confirmed french windows bears little resemblance to us, or english., a fact supported by HRMS, who asked if i could convert to english, as they also had problems . It was the com port issue that was the problem, and still is, in that you cant just dial it up , and find it, unlike uk windows. Hopefully this problem will disappear, as next month i will have a english laptop, courtescy of my son. Mark is also a little uncertain of french windows. All this is totall;y irrelevent to  Elite upgrade. The point RAF and i was making, is that the upgrade is causing many problems, and on here alone, we already have 3 bricked machines. Given this, i was suggesting a rethink on how it is done. thata all . john 

[Fishmanoz]

Memory's fine john. Yes, your reluctance was at least in part where it was without internet but you worried you would have to go through the whole Mark rigmarole again on upgrade. This was ultimately unfounded. And nothing to do with windows of any ethnicity. 

 

Yes, problems with firmware upgrade, but all I believe 8/8.1 which should now be solved by the AC method. No problems on XP, Vista or 7.  Again, just do it , you'll be fine. And I remember saying that many times on the RM upgrade too, and it was. 

[Fishmanoz]

And John, you might note Ray has just reported successful updating to 1.42 under 7 in the adjacent MyLocoSound thread where he reports a significant improvement in handling the sound from that decoder. 

[Augustus Caesar]

Leaps of faith young men... leaps of faith.

 

If no-one decided to update their Elite ragardless of which version of Windows they use, or even English, French, German or whatever, then we would all be stuck with version 1.0 machines and little guts to do the obvious... update! This would save Hornby a fortune in development and HRMS a load of time on here.

 

Alas, it doesn't work like that. If one is scared of 'bricking' their Elite then there is a way out of it anyway. However, it must be where a version of the sotware is loadable to the unit. This is where folk hold fear of doing so in case they lose the use of their prized possession.

 

I have been in a situation, although a couple of years ago, where my Elite got 'bricked' but with persistence and a clean install of Windows to clear out rubbish and place correct Firewall settings etc. etc. etc. I was able to bring it back to life. Thus far I have had no further issues with this unit or RM with eLink.

 

It is simply a case of being brave enough to give this a shot. If you don't fancy it for what is essentially a small and largely insignificant update anyway then leave it alone and use as is. Thes updates will already be included in the next major update anyway.

[Fishmanoz]

Well said AC!  Although could be years before a 1.5 is needed, or a 1.43 for that matter.  It's years since we got 1.4 (then a fortnight until 1.41 to fix the bugs in it) but that really did make a change.

[96RAF]

Just reporting progress on how goes the 'Win 8.1 won't update the Elite' investigation currently on-going in liaison with AC...

 

First off the existing Elite driver (this was the MS standard USB one) was uninstalled in Device Manager so we could start from a known baseline (i.e. by eventually installing the driver we wanted from a variety of sources).

 

Then the PC (an HP desktop upgraded from Win 8 - with HP bloatware - to 8.1) was started in Advanced Mode.

I had 2 versions of how to do this and neither were lik the way my PC wanted it done but I got there in the end.

I won't detail how to do this for now until we get a solid procedure together, then it will be set out as a 1-2-3 list.

 

The object of starting in Advanced mode is to disable the default MS setting which bounces things if a driver is not signed. Some PCs give you the option to ignore an unsigned driver and some just bail out without option - mine was the latter and would not let me install a driver by either right clicking the .inf file or doing by browsing from update driver in Device Manager. A real pest - its my pc let me do what I want with it Mr MS.

 

Unfortunately this disablement is a session thing so at next reboot it goes back into default pesky mode. That is a real bug.

 

So with the PC set up to ignore driver signature errors I disconnected my good Elite and reconnected the bricked one - the object of this whole exercise being to produce a bomb-proof way of updating a brick to help people who have fallen into this trap and hopefully set firm methodology for routine upgrades - should the Elite ever get any more.

 

The Elite was put into Update mode with the appropriate delays between pressing this and plugging that, etc and the update was run as normal as an Admin chappie.

 

Result - far too quickly went along the green line, which then flashed a couple of times and reported 'update failed'. I have found if the reen line drags its feet then the update will succeed, it it romps along it a failure.

 

I then reset it all again and tried opening the RM folder - Elite Update - and ran the setup.exe.

 

Result it failed again.

 

So far no good but at least we have the Win 8.1 Advanced Start procedure documented and picked out all the ways you can install an Elite driver

 

Watch this space

[Yelrow]

And fishy just wants me to go ahead, and brick mine. .............. john

[Augustus Caesar]

Update... having received the detail of RAF's attempts at updating his bricked Elite I have sent him three more methods of attempting to con the Elite into working. I say 'con' because it is not listening to normal procedures!

Actually, there are more ways to skin a cat than what we have tackled so far. This is a bit like a war of attrition... we shall not surrender!!!

If there's one thing I hate it's a little box of electronics telling me it ain't doing what it's told! So, the game is not yet up guys... I will persist to the point where RAF says no more or there is no more to try. I have a figure in mind in terms of percentage as to what the possible fix chances are but I won't be posting that here yet!!!

So now I await his further attempts and news of his results... keeping fingers crossed and praying to the gods... if they're listening :-)

[96RAF]

 keeping fingers crossed and praying to the gods... if they're listening :-)

Well there are plenty of them on this island AC - Greek Gods I mean.

And yes no pesky black box will defeat me as I have the last word as to whether it goes in the bin or not.

The Elite is listening AC its just the PC is mumbling the instructions.

Presently having ice cream and white wine so no more Elite until tomorrow.

[RDS]

... I have a figure in mind in terms of percentage as to what the possible fix chances are ...

 

 50

 

[96RAF]

... I have a figure in mind in terms of percentage as to what the possible fix chances are ...

 50 

 i.e. Either it will or it wont. 

[Fishmanoz]

And fishy just wants me to go ahead, and brick mine. .............. john

 

 

John, for the last time from me, why do you think that 8/8.1 problems will apply to you when you tell us so often you have 7?  Firmware updates on 7 work, only on 8 can they be a problem.  Find me anywhere here someone who says the update couldn't be done on 7 and, when you give up, tell me how many people you came across in the process who have done it with 7.  

 

Then just go and do the upgrade.  Remember, no driver installation needed and no needing to find comm port numbers, just start in upgrade mode with delays etc and run the upgrade file as administrator. 

[Augustus Caesar]

... I have a figure in mind in terms of percentage as to what the possible fix chances are ...

 

 50

 

Excellent RDS... I should have known someone would put a figure down... :-)

I should have just plumbed for that straight away and then I couldn't win or lose... well, in theory anyway!

We look toward to the dawn of another day and see the bright skies above and we feel the optimism in the air... well, we would except it's 2.23am and dark... :-)

[96RAF]

Update:

As we were having no joy getting a 'bricked' Elite back on its feet it was suggested by AC that I reload an earlier version of the Elite firmware so at least we had a solid base to work from.

 

I updated the 'bricked' Elite on XP machine putting it back to a previous firmware state (V1.40). Dev Mgr showed Elite running on Hornby R8214 Elite driver on this machine not the Microchip one.

 

Copied all updates and drivers file onto a USB memory stick.

 

Deleted all the Hornby drivers on the Win8.1 machine and swapped the good Elite for the test unit.

 

Downloaded latest version of RM to get back the deleted drivers and RM failed to find the Elite, even though Dev Mgr had given it a Com port.

 

Tried the V1.42 update - failed.

Tried again just in case - failed.

 

Deleted drivers again and loaded Hornby driver from USB file.

Tried update again - failed.

Repeat update - failed.

 

Repeated all the above stages with the Win8.1 machine restarted in Advanced Mode, although there had been no warning about being unable to load unsigned drivers, etc this time around. - Failed on each attempt.

 

Reported this trial back to AC for review.

 

In the meantime I am off to UK for a spell so I will take my update folders with me on a memory stick and try again using my daughters Win8.1 machine and my UK Elite just to see if it works on her machine, thus proving conclusively its something on my HP train PC over here - I hope so. I have another trusty XP notebook over there as well that will get me out of the mire when all else fails.

 

Also as I will be over there when Win10 is launched I will revert the UK test Elite to V1.40 and give the V1.42 update a whirl on the latest iteration of MS wonderful software.

I will report more later...