Hornby Pendolino and DCC Select Controller trouble

[dougal_robb]

Hi                                                                                                                                               I am having alot of trouble getting my select controller to work with my only dcc train the pendolino. At first it is okay with only the lights flickering a bit as it speeds up. It then starts faultering and the wheels start spinning. Then it stops and lurches backwards before stoping  all while the drive car wheels are spinning. This happened for the first time about 2mins into the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th run. I have a 8x4 foot layout with approxamately 32.68m of track including lots of sidings which are all conected with point clips. Does anyone know what the problem is? My layout is on hold till i can fix it. Oh and the pendo runs fine on the dc layout. PLS Help

[Chrissaf]

Do we assume from your description that you have a single DCC connection from your controller to your track and that the electrical continuity of your DCC signal is totally reliant upon your physical track, track rail joiners and Hornby point clips?

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Just an observation, but nearly 33 metres is a lot of track for an 8 x 4 board. Roughly how many points are in the  layout design?

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The lights flickering is a bit of a clue to the cause of your problem. DC is more forgiving of poor electrical environments than DCC, so it is not at all surprising the P runs OK on DC. Do we assume that you have two controllers, your Select plus a DC one, only one of which is connected to your layout at any one time? Please expand.

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Answer the above questions giving more detail re: assumptions and point numbers and I'm sure some suggestions will be forthcoming.

[Fishmanoz]

With trains behaving like this, it will often be down to them receiving a poor DCC signal. So the first things I'd be doing would be to make sure that there is a good firm connection between your controller and your track, then making sure it is all clean, as are the wheels and that the pickups are contacting the wheels firmly.  Also make sure your point clips are fitted firmly.

 

One other thing is to make sure you have changed from the DC power track or clip that you had for DC to a DCC one.  If you are using your DC one, it can be converted by flipping open the black cover and removing the capacitor in there by cutting off its legs.

 

Let us know how it is going.

[poliss]

I'm not sure I understand what's going on here. The wheels are spinning, but the train isn't moving? Can you make a video, post it on Youtube and put the link here?

[Fishmanoz]

I was thinking possible DC runaway poliss, even if not exactly like that behaves. Hence the connection and cleaning advice.

[Chrissaf]

I am pretty much on the same wavelength as Fishy. Just wanted Dougal to clarify my assumptions before jumping in with both feet into solution mode.

[dougal_robb]

Hi

To answer your questions Chrissaf i have one select unit conected only at one spot. I only have either the select or standard anoulge controller conect at one time. I have 20 points only 14 in use as 2x4ft  is an extra bit that slides on. It contains 7.48m of track. Sorry i didn't say this before. And yes i have alot of track in a small amount of space but i wanted to use the space. Fishmanoz i was using the wrong clip to start with and swapped but this didn't seem to make a difference when i changed.

Thanks

 

[dougal_robb]

Here is a photo of my layout and some more info. I am in Australia and puchased a dcc controller off ebay. It had a UK female plug so I had to buy an adapter. Could this be the problem? It is in the top right-hand corner of the photo below. Also I have a 4 car rake also in the photo. The photo is of the 6x4ft piece.

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[96RAF]

Wheels spinning but train not moving seems to me that the motor unit is generally OK, but the rest of the train has a hang up. Odd that it OK on straight DC though.

I'm not familiar with the Pendo, although I have a Blue Rapier CL395 which is similar, but can you seperate the train into its seperate lumps and try running each bit around the track. Is there one particular bit that has a problem.

The other thing could be traction tyres slipping on the wheels, due to drag of the other units.

Finally a clean track and wheels. Also check the wheel power pick up wipers are clean and making good contact.

Finally, finally it is possible it could be a duff decoder or one that is not firmly installed.

[RB51]

Sounds like several things are happening simultaneously here. If the wheels are spinning but the train is not moving  the wheels must be up off the track a little or something is catching to prevent movement. I also am not famillar with the Pendolino but I have had instances where a coupler has dropped down and catches the sleepers, another where a piece of insulation under the chassis did the same thing, and yet another where the fall plate (thanks PP) was catching the tender on some curves and slightly lifting the loco off the track. Some of these occurences will not be relevant for the Pendolino but hopefully illustrate the various isuues (with others no doubt) that can cause wheel slip. The flickering lights and erratic movement are probably connected and will be down to poor electrical circuitry, a faulty decoder or both. Can you re-set the de-coder with your Select? R-

[Chrissaf]

Dougal,

Thanks for confirming my assumptions. All the posted answers so far follow a common theme.

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1) Wheels spinning but no movement - Something catching, coaches dragging back.

2) Erratic behaviour - poor electrical environment, dirty track, dirty wheels etc

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All I would add is that maybe items 1) and 2) are related issues. Dealing with item 2) first. I haven't ever experienced it myself, more on why later, but many users say that poor electrical connectivity can cause the decoder in the loco to think it has received DCC commands that have not in fact been sent. For example, suddenly going into reverse for no reason, changing speed, stopping etc. The DCC signal is digital and poor electrical connectivity can cause bits of the DCC signal to be lost or distorted. This can potentially change the meaning of the DCC signal from the locos perspective. It thinks it has being given a command that has not been sent. Your flickering lights is an indicator that your DCC signal / power distribution is an issue, of course it could mean that your track and wheels just need a really good clean and nothing more.

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In my case my layout is 40 metres of track in 8 x 7 feet with 17 points. As I said before, I have never seen this behaviour, EVER. So given my configuration is not too dissimilar to yours, logic would dictate that I should. There is one big difference between my layout and yours though. I have implemented a DCC Bus for the distribution of my DCC signal and power to my track. I openly admit that I have gone completely overboard, in as much that EVERY piece of individual track, including points, even if only a few mm long has its own individual 'droppers' to the Bus. The only function my track joiners have is to physically join track, all my joiners could in theory be the insulated variety and my layout would still work. You might consider installing a Bus, maybe not as extensively as mine, but a compromise i.e each track section between points and on sidings. This would also have the benefit of you being able to remove the point clips as they then wouldn't be required. There are other posts on this forum documenting issues with these Hornby point clips. They can affect power and DCC signal transfer between track sections.

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Turning attention to item 1). Something catching or dragging on the coaches is the most likely problem. Do all the wheels rotate freely, are any stiff? But this could also be as a result of issue 2). Consider this, loco is moving relatively slowly and because of issue 2) suddenly FULL power is applied to the motor. As there has been no slow build up of applied power the wheels slip. I have found wheel slip to be more prone on my EMU as a combination of lack of weight in the power car and lack of driving wheels.

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In conclusion.

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• First thing would be to give the track and wheels a really good clean.
• Check wheels for free movement.
• Check coaches for things that might catch on track.
• Do driving wheels slip more on curves i.e. the coaches drag more when being pulled round a curve. Are the curves too tight due to the sheer amount of track on an 8 x 4 board.
• Last but not least, consider implementing a DCC Bus power/signal distribution.

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PS - As you have a 'Select' you cannot perform a reset of your decoder (suggested by Roger) as the Select does not support CV writing (reset is write value 8 to CV8).

[RB51]

PS - As you have a 'Select' you cannot perform a reset of your decoder (suggested by Roger) as the Select does not support CV writing (reset is write value 8 to CV8).

 Thanks Chris - that was the part I was not sure about. R- 

 

EDIT: I tried to remove the yellow area - honest! R-

[96RAF]

I cheat a bit Rog:

...tried to remove the yellow area - honest!...

I highlight and copy anything I want to reply to from the previous post.

Then I go into the green reply box and type my reply first.

Then go to the front (or wherever) of that text and hit return a couple of times.

Then I paste the stuff I copied into that newly created space..

Finally I highlight the pasted stuff and hit the "66" Block Quote icon above, result is just like you see above...

[RB51]

I cheat a bit Rog:

...tried to remove the yellow area - honest!...

I highlight and copy anything I want to reply to from the previous post.

Then I go into the green reply box and type my reply first.

Then go to the front (or wherever) of that text and hit return a couple of times.

Then I paste the stuff I copied into that newly created space..

Finally I highlight the pasted stuff and hit the "66" Block Quote icon above, result is just like you see above...

 

 

 

[RB51]

I knew there would be a way

 

I highlight and copy anything I want to reply to from the previous post.

Then I go into the green reply box and type my reply first

 

Thanks, R-

 

Hmmmm.... not quite what you got, but close eh? R-

[96RAF]

I highlight and copy anything I want to reply to from the previous post.

Then I go into the green reply box and type my reply first

 

You forgot to highlight it and then press the Quote icon Rog - the blue 66.

[RB51]

Oh yeah = doh!!!  R-

 

You forgot to highlight it and then press the Quote icon Rog - the blue 66

[PJR_slo]

Hi

 

We had a query about a Pendo a while back and as I have one myself, I was able to suggest a solution.  Although the symptoms here are quite different, it may be a similar issue.

 

I believe that this loco comes with pick-ups on the frone wheels; the rear wheels have 2 traction tyres but both on one side.  However the drive wheels also have pick-ups on them.

 

Because of the movement of the loco body, the pickup wires are prone to stress fracture at the pick-up solder point, so the power can become intermittent.

 

The front pick-ups need to be checked and maybe re-soldered.  Also it is a good idea to turn around one of the rear axles so that there is a traction tyre and operational pick-up on each side of the loco, giving a 3/3 wheel pickup, rather than 4/2 as supplied.

 

And the reason why the problem is only noticed on DCC as as previously mentioned.

 

This train is a really nice runner.  For free-running, the centre carriages are the best I have.  There are pick-ups on the rear dummy (for lights), so that is not quite so free, but it is certainly better than some coaches I have.

 

All testing should be carried out with the motorised unit only.

 

Peter

[96RAF]

...Also it is a good idea to turn around one of the rear axles...

 

Not sure if that would cause a short PJR - depends upon the pickup system and if wheels were insulated from the axle or not.

[PJR_slo]

@RAF96

 

On my model, the drive chassis has pick-ups on both the traction tyre wheels and the non-traction wheels.  The wheels are isolated and just pop out; as long as the pick-ups are behind the flanges when re-inserted, there is no problem.  The end result is better power pick-up and I have no idea why the wheels were not fitted like this in the first place.

 

Of course, more recently manufactured Pendos may be different.

 

Peter

[dougal_robb]

Just some more info. I bought the controller and it had a UK female plug, I needed a AUS one. So I bought an adapter for it. Also i was plugged into a power board not the main socket because the adapter, DCC plug and power socket clashed. Thanks for all the help.

[Chrissaf]

Roger (and others to take note),

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The other tip is to use the Blue 'Quote' button only when absolutely needed. No use of the 'Quote' button means no potential yellow text to worry about. Then if you want to specifically 'quote' something, then proceedure is as RAF says and as you have subsequently tried for yourself following his instruction. i.e Paste the text EXTRACT only (not the whole previous reply) into the bottom Green Reply text box. 'Highlight it' and click the 66 Quote button. The highlighted text to be quoted needs to be a self contained paragraph, else the quote action will bleed into any adjacent text.

.

Note: the 66 Quote button is a TOGGLE, so if you make a mistake, then highlight text again and the second click of the 66 Quote button will remove the yellow highlight. All the other text modify buttons are also toggles i.e Bold, Italics, Bullets etc. You can also layer the text effects. The word "Note" at the beginning of this paragraph is both Bold & Italic.

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Another tip: if you do use the Blue 'Quote' button and things start to go wrong. Instead of posting the reply with the error (as Roger did and apologised for in the first post on the previous page). Just abort by 'paging back' or 'page refresh', and start again. Anything that is in the 'reply' text box is cleared by 'paging back' and/or 'page refeshing'.

.

Here endith the lesson......

[96RAF]

Be aware that if you copy and paste a 'quote' and then quote it with the 66 icon then for some reason it seems you can't insert your cursor after it , hence why I said to type your reply in first then make space for the quote.

The other and probably even simpler way of course, thinking about it, is to paste the quoted bit in, type your reply after it as the next para and then go to the quoted bit, highlight and hit the 66 icon.

[RB51]

Just abort by 'paging back' or 'page refresh', and start again. Anything that is in the 'reply' text box is cleared by 'paging back' and/or 'page refeshing'.

 

Always assuming you know about your error before posting. R-

[RB51]

The other and probably even simpler way of course, thinking about it, is to paste the quoted bit in, type your reply after it as the next para and then go to the quoted bit, highlight and hit the 66 icon

 

That works RAF96 - well done. R-