Flying Scotsman TTS Sound Jerky Start?

[john_turner2]

I've had problems with jerky moving off with both a detailed P2 and a class 47 TTS and both were due to faulty motors. Hornby sent a replacement can which when fitted solved the problem on the P2 and the 47 was exchanged by the retailer.  

Whilst changing CVs can improve a faulty product, solving the cause of the problem is far better and generally far easier.  The TTS decoders l have all do the job very well, especially so for the price, but the position off the speakers rather let down their sound performance.  Fitting the speaker at the bottom of the plastic fuel tanks with a speaker grille, as shown in Hornby Mag June 2015 works really well with all the diesel locks.  We need a cl31 TTS next, or better still accessory TTS decoders for a range locks but I'm now way off topic - sorry!

So...check that motor?

[Fishmanoz]

Well done jt2, first time the motor has been shown to be the problem, will be useful for many to know.

[Yasuda]

I've had problems with jerky moving off with both a detailed P2 and a class 47 TTS and both were due to faulty motors. Hornby sent a replacement can which when fitted solved the problem on the P2 and the 47 was exchanged by the retailer.  

Whilst changing CVs can improve a faulty product, solving the cause of the problem is far better and generally far easier.  The TTS decoders l have all do the job very well, especially so for the price, but the position off the speakers rather let down their sound performance.  Fitting the speaker at the bottom of the plastic fuel tanks with a speaker grille, as shown in Hornby Mag June 2015 works really well with all the diesel locks.  We need a cl31 TTS next, or better still accessory TTS decoders for a range locks but I'm now way off topic - sorry!

So...check that motor?

 

[Yasuda]

I purchased a A4 TTS sound decoder taken from the A4 Gadwall I fitted this to Tornado and the difference to the motor function was " no change", I have a new Bach.... 4 MT 2-6-0 and fitted the TTS decoder to try it out and motor wise the decoder appeard transformed with no C V adjustment,  conclusion a motor issue.

I for one would pay a few extra pounds to sort this problem out as the TTS decoder is exceptional value for money, it is not intended to be competition to the Locksound or Zimo but please Hornby sort this out even if it means an improved motor option that those that wish to improve the running will pay for!

[mjb1961]

I purchased a A4 TTS sound decoder taken from the A4 Gadwall I fitted this to Tornado and the difference to the motor function was " no change", I have a new Bach.... 4 MT 2-6-0 and fitted the TTS decoder to try it out and motor wise the decoder appeard transformed with no C V adjustment,  conclusion a motor issue.

I for one would pay a few extra pounds to sort this problem out as the TTS decoder is exceptional value for money, it is not intended to be competition to the Locksound or Zimo but please Hornby sort this out even if it means an improved motor option that those that wish to improve the running will pay for!

I received today the flying Scotsman and gadwall TTS locos but haven't had chance to try them as yet but I expect them to be jerky at slow speeds just like the tornado ,dog and cock o the north TTS I've got ,it's seems to me that if its a motor problem they must be using the same motors in all there TTS range ,steamers anyway ,but if it was to be a decoder problem then you could say that the TTS sound was developed as a budget sound decoder and they were made from cheap inferior components ,replacing a motor or tweaking the cv's may solve or improve the problem but really I'm sure Hornby should have got this right before they put them for sale,or is it the case you get what you pay for after all my city of Coventry ,st Paul's and black 5 with sound are as smooth as silk ,,,,

[dynax]

all my tts locos are fine, straight out of the box,

[mjb1961]

all my tts locos are fine, straight out of the box,

How come ?

[Fishmanoz]

Given Hornby have admitted to some motors being faulty, some will work and some won't. Return the ones that are jerky for motor replacement under warranty. 

[dynax]

with any new loco i get tts or not, i check it on a seperate length of track forwards,reverse and sounds, then i place it on the layout and run it in 30 mins in each direction at mid speed,then a further 30 mins each direction at 3/4 speed, once that has been done i then run/play with stock and upto now all is well, no jerky starts, smooth slow speed running, i am either lucky or the locos have been run in properly and allowed the gearing to bed in correctly,

[mjb1961]

Have managed to find time to give my latest purchase the TTS flying Scotsman a run also Gadwall ,it is jerky on start off but is ok once it gains speed ,in 28 steps it is better as it gains speed quicker but I do prefer 128 steps ,Gadwall on the other hand is quite good ,hardly any jerkiness in 28 or 128 steps ,I won't bother adjusting cv,s at this stage I'll keep running it and see if it improves over time ,,,,,,mjb

[choralc]

I have purchased TTS models over the last year: Gadwall, Flying Scotsman and King Richard; and all three were able to crawl and run smoothly straight out of the box before running in. I purchased CON as one of my last Black Friday purchases and when it arrives I will report its 'running' in the Latest Acquisition thread.

[pugtop]

I have the TTS P2, which has run fine, from new, out of the box. I also have the A4 Gadwall (Gadwell? on the box) which blew its speaker, shortly after running in (replced with a bass reflex speaker, now working fine and very loud). Also and my most annoying one, I have the BR Blue Tornado TTS, this worked fine at first but now it runs really jerky when at low speed and the sound refelcts this. It sounds terrible and the sound is rough. I think the standard speakers are dire and can easily be replaced with a bass reflex speaker, available from Maplins.

Now for my problem. I bought the Tornado from a retailer at a Toy Fair and have no proof of purchase. I do see the seller frequently at many exhibitions and I will ask him for his opinion. I have run the loco with a std R8249 decoder and it runs fine. Any suggestions as to where I should go next?

I have tried the CV changes and had no luck, so that is no help.

I also have a Hornby Duchess that I have a high quality sound decoder fitted to and that is jerky under acceleration, when fitted to a different duchess, it works fine, which points to a motor fault......which is understandable.

Any ideas on the Tornado then?

[Chrissaf]

OK, not strictly directly related to the models quoted in the thread, but it is possible that the quoted models use the same motor as the P2 loco with jerky motion issues in this video. Previous posts in this thread make reference to a dodgy motor. This video demonstrates that, and takes the extreme action of replacing the motor with another.

The video is in two parts

shows the original issue

shows what this user did to resolve it.

.

The P2 in the video is DC and not DCC or DCC TTS, but I'm assuming the motor is common to all types.

.

The video is interesting to watch, if only to demonstrate the poor quality of the motor chosen by Hornby to install.

[Fishmanoz]

Look at my previous post on this page about fsiulty motors and replacement under warranty.  Blown speakers would come under this too.

[mjb1961]

I still think it's the decoders ,some members have posted and have said putting in a r8249 decoder has got the loco running perfect ,also has anyone read what has been stated on the leaflet with the TTS locos ,agorythm 1 is like running on a r8249 and agorythm 2 is like running on a Lenz decoder,,,

[pugtop]

I agree wth mjb 1961, I tend to think it's a decoder fault as mine ran fine when the R8249 was installed. The blown speakers is another bugbear to me, I believe that is because they are cheap tat. The sound they produce is nasty and harsh. I bought the Gadwall A4 TTS, new but very cheaply, hence when the speaker went after THREE HOURS, I didn't mind replacing it with something better. However, with my Blue Tornado, I paid good money for it andexpected it to work better. As with all of my locos it was run in originally and sees occasional use. I have tried the various CV adjustments and have come up blank. The CV150 chnge makes the loco run horribly fast and it still has the lumpy running issue until it picks up speed......Arghh!

Methinks it will be going back to Hornby then....

[Fishmanoz]

While there is clearly an interaction issue between decoder and motor, why would Hornby be replacing motors for people if the decoder is faulty?

[mjb1961]

Hi Pugtop,I'm disappointed as well and would expected better even though it is a budget sound decoder ,I'm talking about the running quality ,jerky start off and coming to a stop but I can honestly say with all 5 of my TTS steam locos ,f/ Scotsman ,gadwall,d o g ,c of the n,and tornado if I change the cv's to agorythm 2 settings and also run the locos in 128 steps it is quite acceptable ,if you haven't already give this a try and see what you think ,128 steps is a must ,also please note ,I do not use Hornby controllers ,I'm useing NCE powercab ,,let us know ow you get on ,,

[mjb1961]

I agree wth mjb 1961, I tend to think it's a decoder fault as mine ran fine when the R8249 was installed. The blown speakers is another bugbear to me, I believe that is because they are cheap tat. The sound they produce is nasty and harsh. I bought the Gadwall A4 TTS, new but very cheaply, hence when the speaker went after THREE HOURS, I didn't mind replacing it with something better. However, with my Blue Tornado, I paid good money for it andexpected it to work better. As with all of my locos it was run in originally and sees occasional use. I have tried the various CV adjustments and have come up blank. The CV150 chnge makes the loco run horribly fast and it still has the lumpy running issue until it picks up speed......Arghh!

Methinks it will be going back to Hornby then....

Changing cv 150 into the algorithm mode you want then allows further adjustment of 2 more c.vs  adjustiung these c.v's brings the motor under better control .

Hi magfan,as well as changing agorythm I also find running on 128 steps is a lot better ,well I think it is a must with these TTS locos,,,,,

[Fishmanoz]

Is it still under warranty?  Does it not work properly (ie. does it run jerkily?)?  If the answer to both questions is yes, return to your supplier for repair/replacement under warranty.

 

And the more people do this, the more likely Hornby will recognise they have a problem and the sooner they are likely to fix it.  This will be the case whether it is the decoder, the motor, some interaction between them, or because the default setup of the CVs in the decoder is sub-optimal.

 

One thing is certain from quite a lot of threads reporting this problem across many TTS locos, a significant number don't run satisfactorily straight out of the box, and they should.

[poliss]

All modern DCC loco decoders should be set to 128 speed steps. Early DCC systems and decoders could only handle 14 or 28 speed steps.

[96RAF]

TTS decoders wont work properly unless they are set to 128 steps. Clearly stated in the book Along with the start delay and the minimum  accel/decell setting values.

[Fishmanoz]

It's not as if you have to go and set the decoder to 128 speed steps, it will come default already set via bit 1 of CV29.  All you have to do is not unset it by subtracting 2 from the decimal value of CV29.

[mjb1961]

Hi ,does everyone realise this was first posted on June 11 last year ! ,,has the original poster solved the jerky running issue or not ,or will it be the same as the other member with the same problem from Australia ,never hear from them ,never know if or how it was solved ,,,,

[96RAF]

Maybe the forum default should be that the OP gets pinged everytime their post is replied to, then maybe they would say enough its fixed.

at present there is no way to close out a post other than it falling off the grid due to lack of responses.