Class 37 TTS fault still not resolved.

[pendeenpete]

I finally got my class 37 back from Hornby after about three weeks,unfortunately they could not replicate the fault when testing,and now it's back to square one,still frequently just sitting dropping the brakes,turn sound off and away it goes. I have now found if I use a function sound,it will also move immediately.  One other less frequent symptom,is that it will stop momentarily,and then carry on almost immediately.

I really don't want to send it back to Hornby again,as though the Customer Service people were very nice,it took two weeks to even look at it,and I found I had to ring them several times after promises they would ring me and didn't.

A further complication is that I painted the roof,and I felt grateful they were even prepared to look at it.

All my track (Peco 100) is kept spotless,I have dropper wires every track section,and a TTS Gadwell runs perfectly, I can't find a similiar fault on the web,which I would expect if it was anything other than a decoder type problem. Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks Pete

[96RAF]

Its definitely a loco/decoder fault Pete and not the track, but which one.

 

As it is in warranty I would try:

Altering the CV that controls the start delay using a range of values from 0 (which means it starts immediately and drops the brakes after its gone, through default 25 (2.5 seconds) to 70 (7 seconds max) which means it drops the brakes a couple times before it moves..

I would have thought Hornby Service Centre would have reset the decoder both CV8 to 8 (full reset) and to 5 (sound reset), but you could try that also and more than once, as at times it doesn't seem to 'listen'.

I would also have thought given a 'No Fault Found' scenario they would have swapped out the TTS decoder and speaker package in any case - but maybe they don't have any spares.

 

If it were out of warranty I would proceed as follows:

Take the body off (it just unclips and shouldn't invalidate any warranty), and swap the TTS decoder with a standard one. Unplug the TTS decoder and just temporarily hang a basic R8249 decoder in there to see it the fault persists - especially the occasional stopping, which I have seen on several of my locos, but which is always dirt - either wheels or my grubby track.

Check the decoder socket - its held in with 2 screws - are the wires well insulated and no solder or stray wires bridging the copper tracks underneath. When the decoder plug is firmly inserted there is no chance of the pins touching anything conductive, etc.

As you have other TTS locos swap the TTS module between locos and see if the problem transfers, proving its the decoder.

The out of warranty checks are obviously at your own risk and you are fully entitled instead to ask Hornby (or the retailer) to fix it or exchange for another one or refund your money under the sales of goods act - there are plenty of experts on this forum who can advise on that subject.

 

[walkingthedog]

I don't think painting the roof would affect the warranty. Aren't sound locos supposed to go through s cycle of sounds before they move away? The one sound loco I have takes about 10 seconds before it moves. 

[pendeenpete]

Thanks RAF96 for a such detailed reply, I was hoping they would replace the decoder and suggested this to customer service,who agreed it would be sensible. The worksheet I got back just said "unable to replicate fault" and nothing else.

I have looked at the manual but can't find any start delay cv,unless you mean the start voltage??

The brake release noise is different when the fault occurs,softer?? and repetetive,so not sure if this will affect it anyway. I have reset the decoder both full CV8 and sound only, many times.

I will ring them tomorrow,if no joy at least my class 37 movement will comply with health and safety regulations,(sound horn before unexpected movement)

 

Thanks again Pete

[96RAF]

Apologies  - the start delay only applies to steamers CV201. With diesels it is built into the start sequence upon applying throttle.

Looking at troubleshooting it is suggested you make sure F7 (Idle) and/or F8 (Thrash) are not toggled to and left on as this affects normal control sounds.

A tip to see if you have any unselected toggled F's is to readdress the decoder to one not used before (e.g. short address 99) and see if that works OK as a CV8 reset does not untoggle those F's previously selected.

Also note that resetting a decoder will disable long addressing which you will have ot set up again.

 

[Michael_A]

I also think the least they could have done is replace the decoder! Surely they must have spares?

 

How long have you had it? Why not just insist on a refund / repalcement, or is the painted roof an issue? (Remember it is the sellers responsibilty to do this, not the manufacturers) I would try everything RAF96 suggest, but if under warranty I personally would not take it apart, if you damage anything then the warranty may be invaildated.

 

Sounds like you have not had the greatest service. Maybe sending Hornby a small video clip (if you can) might help them diagnose the issue?

 

 

 

[poliss]

Just a thought. What is the power output of the transformer? The output from my old Multimaus transformer is very high.

Don't know what the new ones put out.

[pendeenpete]

Thanks for your interest gents, I have been onto Hornby today and have sent a video clip as they requested. I will try and post it on here if the site allows it. According to sources the latest multimaus has a reduced voltage  from the earlier ones due the transformer having to conform to eu or German regulations.

Re the multimaus

The fault is so random that I  feel this suggestion is not the case, I would expect a controller incompatibilty to be more regular in its manifestation and affect the other sounds and a TTS Gadwell which operates correctly. This last point seems lost on Hornby,who are also suspicious of my multimaus ??. Which is NMRA compliant unlike other controllers,???????

I originally went back to the retailer,who seemed willing to swap the complete chassis, as I had painted the roof, but after having it for four days told me they had run out of 37's,hence the return to Hornby. 

Just tried to upload a video,the site says an error may have occured,(bit like my banana 37)

Thanks again Pete

[poliss]

You can't put videos on here. What you can do is put one on Youtube and put the link on here, remembering to put a space after the link to make it clickable.

[96RAF]

Dropbox is another way of linking to a user video from here - ref previous upload somewhere showing an autotrain with a FRED.

[pendeenpete]

I think?? I have uploaded it to you tube,no idea how to make a link,and can't find it anyway,maybe it takes a while to show up.

Beginning to think I should have stuck with clockwork trains.

 

Pete

[Michael_A]

Copy the YouTube link into the reply box

 

 

Go to your video in YouTube, right click on the internet address bar, click copy, back to the forum, right click paste and the link should appear similar to:

 

 

[pendeenpete]

You tube link is 

 ,thanks fot techno help everyone,sorry for quality or lack of it???

 

Pete

[pendeenpete]

And one more link if you're interested, 

,

 

Thanks again everyone, Hornby not replied to video as yet. I think they have a target of five days to reply to an email.

Pete

[poliss]

Are there any small numbers showing up on the Multimaus screen?

[pendeenpete]

Hi Poliss,there are the function numbers when activated,is this what you mean?

[poliss]

Yes. I'm wondering if they are staying active instead of being momentary.

[pendeenpete]

No,I turn them off as soon as a function has played,otherwise you have to press the button twice.

Just found a you tube video showing a class 37 on a rolling road doing exactly the same,a comment regarding it from raf  ,then there is a comment from another owner with the same fault. I can't believe they both have the dreaded multimaus symptom,maybe there are more owners that don't see it as a problem??

[96RAF]

That vid must have been linked to you tube from RM Web forum as I don't have a you tube login to be able to comment on them directly.

From memory I pointed out it sounded like the brakes wouldnt release.

[pendeenpete]

You are quite correct RAF96,I thought I had seen every class 37 video in my search for answers,the non brake release on the video is quite severe,but other than you and another owner,no one seems to think it was unusual.

It has made me feel a bit better however,as it would seem to prove it is not my track/power supply,unless the rolling road owner is using a Multimaus.

Pete

[96RAF]

I couldn't find it again.

If you could find it again Pete you may be able to PM him or it may be listed in his profile.

[pendeenpete]

Hi RAF,

this is it  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79840-hornby-announce-dcc-sound-at-%C2%A325-a-pop/page-7.     Don't think I've got the hang of posting links 

Do you have to be a member of RM tp PM ?

 

Pete

[96RAF]

Yes thats the one:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79840-hornby-announce-dcc-sound-at-%C2%A325-a-pop/page-7

Post #157 is the video with th eproblem showing up after the cold start around 5 minutes in.

My comment is at post #160.

You usually have to be a member to PM but its free and easy to join. If you can see the Message envelope under Steve-e 's name try it.

His profile doesn't say what kit he is using.

[pendeenpete]

Thanks RAF,

 

I have PM'd both of the people, am getting very hi tech since going dcc. Still no reply from Hornby though.

As an aside,do you have any TTS locos? Any problems? And what set uo do you use?

Not being nosey,just that you seem to have an in depth knowledge of the black art of DCC and TTS

.

 

Pete

[96RAF]

Pete

Thank you for your interest - Boring old story time follows - apologies to the rest of you:

I have several TTS locos - 2 x Class 37, a Class 47, a DoG and a Tornado, along with many other locos of all eras all converted to DCC, all Hornby except for a faithful B'mann Jinty.

I prefer to install a decoder socket if I can to non-DCC ready locos, just to make decoder swaps easier, although I have hard wired the decoders into my Class 395 Javelin as this was simpler.

Problems? - the early TTS decoders had a faulted logic in their directional lighting, since corrected in production. This meant that although the loco went fwd/rev correctly the lights were wrong. White at the back and red at the front. Fiddling with CVs didn't fix it so I got over it by simply swapping the yellow and white wires at the decoder pcb as this was more easily achieved than trying to do it at the 8-pin plug. Obviously this was in preference to bodging the loco wiring just in case I ever had to swap out a decoder.

Apart from that the TTS decoders have been 100% fine. The sounds may not be perfect compared to Rolls Royce full fat sound decoders but I'm happy with them. So the steamers don't synchronise their chuffs, but the diesels are excellent in the way the sound profile follows how they drive.

I found the diesels were a bit lightweight so I hot-glued some old steel chassis weights into the chassis and body where I could to bring the weight up and help provide better traction. I also added directional lights to the diesels - using Express Models kits for convenience although its much cheaper to source the led and resistor components than buy a kit. adding lanterns to steamers is probably outwith my eyesight and ancient finger skills.

My current set up is Elite which is running the trains, eLink working the points through a relay system that allows me to have both DCC points activation and manual switching for convenience. The DC pulse from the Accesory Decoders fires into the relay coil thus allowing the separate AC supply from an old H&M2000 analogue controller to discharge a CDU into the point motor solenoids. Manual switching also fires the CDU into the solenoids.

I have Railmaster as my prime operating software as well as Rocrail and a developmental voice controlled software package from years ago that has never progressed beyond trials.

My layout in Cyprus is a 12ft  x 6 ft L shaped end to end (I do prefer roundy roundy layouts) with a Hornby rolling road as both my running in and test track and my programming track - switchover being via a DPDT switch.

My UK layout is either the rolling road if I remeber to pack it or a simple circle of track.I also have a decoder test rig comprising a decoder socket attached to a geared motor as a pseudo loco and a bank of LEDs that allows me to set up and test a decoder before fitting it.

I love to fiddle with the mechanics and electronice of model railways and enjoy passing on anything I can via the forums, which are a veritable goldmine of information. You wouldn't believe the store of knowledge there is on here.

Rob