Windows 10

[Yelrow]

WTD, if we said 1% it, would support HRMS who say problems are only for minority. This would tend to indicate a good back up by retailers, together with some computer knowledge by purchasers. Have not seen any other postings on other forums. john

[Nick_]

I remember seeing a post from HRMS which said that the number of Railmaster users was over 5 digits, so that means at least 10,000 Railmaster users!

[RDS]

... This worked for me. I hope it works for you ...

 

Excellent Phil, it worked for me as well.  The only issue I had was that my Elite icon was 'greyed out' and hovering over it showed that the 'DCC controller was inactive', even though I could control everything perfectly well.  I have followed your very detailed instructions and the Elite is no longer greyed out and hovering now shows 'DCC controller active'.

 

I also have the facility to operate RailMaster over my network and even this aspect worked perfectly after my upgrade to Windows 10 but hovering over the network icon (this appears instead of the Elite on a networked version) showed that the 'DCC controller is inactive'.  This is still the case after following your instructions but again all controls work perfectly, just like they did before.

Again, well done and thank you for taking the time to list out the detailed steps

[Augustus Caesar]

Having played about with RailMaster, Elite and Windows 10 for a couple of days, I’ve managed to get things working by following previous advice and copying the “usbser.sys” file from the Windows.old (in my case Windows 7) into the new Windowssystem32drivers folder having first renamed the existing one “ubser-old.sys”. This needs to be done with the Elite disconnected or windows won’t allow you to do it. You also need to be logged on as Administrator.

 In my case the “usbser.sys” file from Windows 7 is file version 6.1.7601.18247 dated 29/8/2013. The “usbser.sys” file that was in the Windows 10 folder is file version 10.0.10240.16401 dated 05/08/2015. It seems that the driver installed by Windows 10 does not “talk” correctly to the Elite (and Elink) or RailMaster does not “talk” correctly to the driver. Or, possibly, a combination of both as well as there being elements that are system dependent.

Phil, you've simply did exactly what I described in a previous post but your example covers the Elite and not the eLink.

The fact you got the Elite's greyed out icon to light up and manage communications between RM and the Elite is commendable.  When I connected my own Elite there were no such issues.

However, I thought I would again give this another shot by mimicking your versions of the files I, myself, would have attempted to get working.

I reinstalled Win10 as before with no gimmick software to interfere. I copied over the file versions as you describe in both methods (numbered list 1 to 11 and then 12 and 13) separately. The eLink does not make the connection.

I also tried the suggested download of said driver from HRMS in an earlier, but recent, post and that ALSO failed.

@john Wilson

To say this is not likely to be a driver issue and for HRMS to supply a driver for usage means you are off the mark unfortunately. It could be a combination of the driver and hardware communications issues so you'd be correct in that respect.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong... the issue is getting this problem fixed or as near as fixed as can be.

The fact that printers and scanners work etc means little. Each unit uses their own driver and even if you use the SAME USB socket as the eLink it makes no difference. Those pieces of hardware use those sockets in a different way.

When Windows 7 was first released a lot of scanners (flat bed and not the 3 in 1's) did not work simply because the drivers could not get the hardware to communicate with Windows correctly. Thus those scanners were deemed obsolete at a stroke overnight. Vista had the same problem. You cannot say that if one piece of hardware works on one socket that all hardware must therefore work... doesn't work like that. It's the electronics and the instructions in said driver that makes the connection through USB and allows communication to take place.

The driver is at fault... but I do not, and have never said that I, rule out other possibilities in conjunction with that.

[Augustus Caesar]

The hardware is fundamentally different for a start. The chips in each unit will have different instruction sets and will communicate at a different level to the other. Users of course would never need to consider this as all is required is a working unit either way.

 

Your question may be based on this: "If both the Elite and eLink use the same driver then the hardware must be similar so why the problems?"

I can see why that would be asked but just to give a flavour of how one thing is different to the other... and this is not why the problems exist it is simply to show where they are different....

The Elite is a simple controller that doesn't have anywhere near the complexity of the eLink. When you program a loco with the Elite you simply send a command to the decoder, lift your loco to the main track and then have the Elite access that decoder and you turn the dial to operate that loco. That's it in the simplest form. The Elite has no database to call upon for loco names really except that the name you program into the Elite for your loco number to match your decoder is as far as that goes... all nice and simple. So there's little for the chips etc to be involved in.

The eLink is different in that it has a database to contend with that holds all data for hundreds of individual locos with more room than you need for adding more. The eLink is run by software, RailMaster, and the two of these must run together. The Elite does not need the software and can run on its own.

Now, before I am taken apart by some, I do say this is the two units in their simplest forms and I simply cannot list all capabilities here to describe why such errors can come up more for one than the other. The difference in hardware and how they communicate, even via the same USB sockets, with the software and/or computer is in simple terms like describing a teapot and a kettle... they are different but both are involved in making tea. A daft analogy but maybe understandable.

Hope that gives a non complex idea of an answer Ray...

[Fireman_Ian]

Wheather we like it or not Windows 10 is here and here to stay. If I had to go out today and buy a new laptop it would have Windows 10 pre-installed.

If I then purchased Railmaster an Elink or the Elite they would be unusable.

I could try and return my laptop to the store and would be laughed out of there. So I would do what any normal person would do and return the products to Hornby as being not fit for purpose.

Hornby need to sort this problem out before a lot of elinks and elites appear on ebay.

I am the senior analyst for the worlds leading test laboratory to the copier and printer industry and know that all the leading printer manufacturers had Windows 10 drivers on there websites before Windows 10 was launched on the 29th July.

Hornby should have been prepared and done the same.

[Graskie]

Despite what you say, FI, Epson, for a start, didn't have a new Windows 10 driver for my Epson Stylus SX400. I managed to get it going again, though, after a lot of frustration by reinstalling the old Windows 7 driver which seemed to have been knocked out by the upgrade. I still can't get my tower front card readers and USB connections working either. My USB connections on the back work just fine. I have not upgraded my Notebook yet because I work RM with that and didn't want to take any risks with it.

 

I know some of you guys are real experts in computers but I think it's a bit harsh to clobber Hornby so soon when there are so many computer systems and configurations out there to take into account. They did, after all, advise people not to rush into upgrading. As for saying Hornby products such as RM are not fit for purpose, that is far too nasty a criticism which I, for one, cannot accept as reasonable.

 

As they say, it'll all come out in the wash.

[Yelrow]

Fireman Ian, hi, nobody is more against windows 10, than,I, the president of the anti 10  society, but as WTD and i were talking about, you must put this in perspective. It can really, only be a few machines/ makes that are involved, as the NET, and trade press, have reported nothing, and you can rest assurred, that the likes of amazon, would be screaming, if returns were thudding back. The vast majority of customers, seem quite happy. Whether they are computer literate, or have a lot of retail help, is another matter. I am with Graskie, its a superb product, great for purpose, and incredibly well supported/ backed up. What a shame, microsoft decided to try to spoil the party, by using us all as guinea pigs, with their Free  load now, regret later  issue. john 

[RDS]

... If I then purchased Railmaster an Elink or the Elite  they would be unusable ...

Not True.  I have Elite and RailMaster running on Windows 10.

[Fireman_Ian]

RDS my RailMaster and Elite is also working but for the icon on the right top which is greyed out and informs that the controller is inactive.

Although I can controll points through the Elite controller I am unable to read or write CV's from RailMaster.

Is this the case with yours?

[Johnde]

... If I then purchased Railmaster an Elink or the Elite  they would be unusable ...

Not True.  I have Elite and RailMaster running on Windows 10.

I to have an Elite that works with Railmaster on windows 10 it's the E-link that does not ( refuses to handshake ) !

[Fireman_Ian]

 Are you happy with that Johnde or would you like it to be sorted out?

Who is responsible for getting it to work - Hornby or Microsoft?

[Yelrow]

Microsoft, it was fine before upgrade. john

[Fireman_Ian]

 What about the situation of the bloke who ordered Railmaster and Elink last week and had it delivered yesterday, then went to Curries and purchased a laptop for his railway which has Windows 10 pre-loaded (most people dont care what operating system they have as long as the thing turns on) now he gets home and finds he cannot play trains, who is responsible to get it to work?

[poliss]

 Microsoft won't do anything about it.

[RDS]

... working but for the icon on the right top which is greyed out and informs that the controller is inactive ...

Ian, mine was the same until I followed the step by step instructions provided by Phil on Page 26 of this thread.  (I don't know about CV's - never changed them from RailMaster, always use Elite but not needed to change any since update)

[Fireman_Ian]

 RDS, I am perfectly happy with my Elite and Railmaster on Win 10 apart from the reading of CV's and can always use JMRI (which works with the Elite with no problems) to change CV's.

But many users of Elink have issues which in my opinion need to be addressed right now not in a few months time.

poliss you are absolutly correct, Microsoft won't do anything, it is not thier problem, it is the problem of the Hornby customers and by association Hornby themselves.

[Johnde]

The problem with the E-link is with Raimaster support and so far after 20 messages and 1 week it is still not working. No telephone link just E-mail, from working with IT depts how much easier it is and quicker it is to sort out a problem over the telephone. Somebody will learn one day.

[poliss]

 The thing is, if computers are so clever, why can't they fix these problems themselves?

[Johnde]

 The thing is, if computers are so clever, why can't they fix these problems themselves?

Nice thinking poliss , however ? The human brain can, it is really biological computer . Think about it

[Augustus Caesar]

Further research leads me to stick to my guns re the driver being wrong but also maybe a chip in the hardware too.

The usbser.sys file is loaded by Windows and further by the usbser.inf file within the INF directory. I have fiddled once more, this time with the INF file too, with the code re driver version numbers WITHIN these files and still cannot get the eLink to communicate. This will not affect the Elite I don't think so ignore all Elite from here on in.

There are hundreds of instances on the web where the usbser.sys file is blamed for non communication to hardware and this has been ongoing since the days of the inroduction of Windows XP!!! Each new OS release just makes things worse apparently.

 

A video on the Tube shows a similar issue and the hardware not talking to the driver properly...

The text introduces the video as thus:

"Update: Windows 10 Preview Build 9860 fixes this bug!This video was made for Microsoft, to demonstrate how to reproduce the USB Serial (USBSER.SYS) surprise removal issue. Hopefully Microsoft will someday fix this in a future version of Windows?"

Well, it may have fixed THAT bug but not the RM and eLink one... :-(

 

 

Make of this what you will but at least it MAY give you an idea of how the driver 'talks' to the chip on the units used... so for the eLink it may be the same problem. Now, I know the guy in the video has his unit working and not working just don't tie in the eLink example too heavily. But, this may be on the right path... or at least give the viewer an insight.

[john_wilson1]

AC I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. The USB port driver that appears in Device Manager is generic. It is not specific to any USB device. Developers use to write drivers for their devices, hence why Hornby provided drivers for Vista and earlier versions of Windows. As you have pointed out the USB drivers provided for Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 are all produced by MicroChip Technologies. Not Microsoft.   

 

 

The current breed of USB driver sets up the path over which communication between the device and the computer happens. If you like it lays the track. Nothing else. The actual communication between the device and the computer program (elink and Railmaster) is set up by the software contained within the firmware on the elink device and the Railmaster software. It is here that the problem lies in my opinion. Clearly there is an incompatibility problem between Windows 10 and Railmaster/elink and it is one that even the Windows compatibility wizard doesn’t solve.  

 

From a users perspective we can use the compatibility wizard to report problems to Microsoft, but when they would get around to looking at it no one knows, especially as I would hazard a guess and say the number of users who would be reporting the problem would be relatively small in the scope of the Windows 10 user base. As users we can also report the problem to Hornby and here I would expect a quicker response, not least because it is in their commercial interest to keep customers happy and not lose them to rivals. Telling users not to use Windows 10 is frankly not good enough. There will be potential new customers out there who will buy a new Windows 10 computer and then buy the elink system for their layout only to find it doesn’t work and they can’t roll back to Windows 7 or 8 because they don’t have it. This could happen within weeks, not months.   

 

Reportedly Microsoft have also moved away from the service pack approach, so using this as an excuse is also misguided.  

 

If as I suspect this is a compatibility issue and not a driver issue, then it is possible that Hornby (or their developers) have overlooked a change in the way a Windows API their application calls works and not made the necessary changes to their programme.  

 

It is also interesting that people are reporting more (though not complete) success with the Hornby Elite and Railmaster. The firmware on these devices is of course different and this could indicate that at least part of the problem is the firmware in the elink device.  

 

Your reference to the YouTube video is interesting, but not relevant. As the YouTube page says the bug was corrected in Windows 10 Preview Build 9860 and that was released on or before 29 October 2014. I don’t know what you have but my build version is 10240. Also the video demonstrates that communication IS working over the link. It is only when the device is unplugged the problem happens.  

 

Regardless, assuming Hornby see a future for Railmaster and elink it is in their interest to get to the cause of the problem as soon as possible and not hope that some future bug fix to Windows 10 will solve the it for them. 

[GWR Greg]

John W1 what you say makes a lot of sense. AC to be far has also suggested that it might be something more than the driver. Anyway over to HRMS for comment.

[Fireman_Ian]

From a users perspective we can use the compatibility wizard to report problems to Microsoft, but when they would get around to looking at it no one knows, especially as I would hazard a guess and say the number of users who would be reporting the problem would be relatively small in the scope of the Windows 10 user base. As users we can also report the problem to Hornby and here I would expect a quicker response, not least because it is in their commercial interest to keep customers happy and not lose them to rivals. Telling users not to use Windows 10 is frankly not good enough. There will be potential new customers out there who will buy a new Windows 10 computer and then buy the elink system for their layout only to find it doesn’t work and they can’t roll back to Windows 7 or 8 because they don’t have it. This could happen within weeks, not months.   

Regardless, assuming Hornby see a future for Railmaster and elink it is in their interest to get to the cause of the problem as soon as possible and not hope that some future bug fix to Windows 10 will solve the it for them. 

John, I agree with you 100% as I wrote on the previous page, someone needs to take responsibility for getting Railmaster, Elink and Elite working on Windows 10 and that somebody is Hornby.

[tony_forward]

Twenty nine pages of waffle!

all goes to show that no one should EVER take a Microsoft upgrade until it has been in general use for at least 6 months - possibly even longer!

The people I feel sorry for are those as stated above that buy a new laptop/PC in the coming weeks and find that RM/E-link doesnt work with W10.

Having said that, there are those that have it working, so what are they doing right?

Bearing in mind that my W7/elink combo is working fine on 1.61 rev 2, my own intention is to leave W10 as long as possible, even perhaps not even doing the upgrade ever, on the RM laptop after all, going by past experience W11, 12 etc., will be along in due course!