Windows 10

[RAINESCOLIN]

John.The ELINK firmware update I used was already installed on RAILMASTER I only reinstalled it to check to see if this would resolve my problems. And By making excuses for HRMS this will not correct the ELINK problems. HRMS has stated to me and others that Windows 10 was safe to install as this had been tested by them on different platforms and by Beta testers with no problems found.

I have since created my own problem I have uninstalled and reinstalled RAILMASTER it now jumps past ELINK set up and goes to DCC controller. Not failing handshake anymore

Their warning about not installing updates should be within RAILMASTER and NOT hidden away on forums. I for one along with many others have never seen this warning. This could be on RAILMASTER on start up the same as news about other releases.Colin.

[Yelrow]

Colin, i am a little confused, as my last posts were about Elite, not elink. As for HRMS, they HAD totally cured elink probs for windows 8. ifind it curious that they said it was safe to install, as they advised people to wait. As to updates, Windows 10, is NOT an update, its a revolution, and as with  windows 8, probs were bound to occur. They always do. When somebody, as computer literate as AC, with 30 years expertise, reverts to windows 8, that should tell everybody that sommat is amiss. I sympathise totally with anyone in this predicament, albeit, self inflicted, and am confident that HRMS as is their want, are working round the clock, to come up with a solution, for those still struggling. I have never come across any other product, so ably supported, where somebody will take over tour laptop to assist. Its most unusual. As you will have read, some in order to play trains have reverted back to windows 8., and others, like myself, remain on windows 7.. john

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

We have been monitoring this forum at the same time as offering support to those users who are experiencing problems with eLink communications following the update to Windows 10.  Just for the record, we did not say it was safe to install on Windows 10.  We said that we have tested it on Windows 10 and found no problems, however that everybody's PCs are different.  When you factor in that Microsoft operating system upgrades always contain a number of bugs we advised that users should hold off until these bugs are fixed.  Having said that, it is in everybody's interests that RailMaster and eLink work on Windows 10 and previous versions equally well. To this end we have been working to find out exactly what in the chain is causing the problem for some (thankfully still a tiny minority of) users.

The fact that we tested the software and drivers on several different PCs running Windows 10 (and in different languages too) as did our beta testers, and none of us found problems indicates that the number of users having this problem, although vocal, represent a fraction of one percent of RailMaster/eLink users.

We are in no doubt that a change has been made in the Windows serial port driver.  Hornby did not develop the driver.  This is a generic Windows driver that the eLink relies on.  It is built into successive versions of Windows.  For some reason, and only for a small number of users, this is causing a problem in Windows 10.  Please also remember that Hornby do not manufacture the processing chips or USB circuitry used within the eLink as these are off-the-shelf items where drivers are provided by third parties working with Microsoft/Windows.  We are therefore in communication with all concerned to try and get to the bottom of what has changed, why and what needs to be done to get it working again for users affected.

We can tell you that we have been working on this almost night and day since the first reports to see if there is anything we can do within RailMaster itself to work around these problems and it keeps coming back to the Windows serial port driver, which we have no control over.  We do not want any unhappy customers but please bear in mind that this situation is not of our making and we, as in the past, must try to work around a situation caused by third parties upgrading software and operating systems.  This is not the first time this has happened and we are sure it will not be the last.  It causes aggravation for everybody concerned and has also meant that we cannot yet release the 1.62 RailMaster maintenance update.

 

[RB51]

Thanks HRMS - as ever a calm and professional reponse. I can wait. R-

[walkingthedog]

Less than 1% with a problem. Pretty low for any product I would say. 

[Graskie]

I have a problem and it lays me pretty low at times..................

[walkingthedog]

Yes I know Graskie but you usually bounce back. 

[Augustus Caesar]

That 1% figure is only those who have been bothered to say anything about the current problem. However, that is STILL too high a %. It is in HRMS interest to keep working on this and find a solution for everyone.

I don't mind waiting one single bit. My laptop and tablet both run Win 8.1 and will be upgraded to Win 10 when it all works... I tested and found the driver at fault almost immediately. The more I researched this issue the more I was convinced. My years of experience told me logically that the common denominator was always the driver. The main trouble with it is that it is a GENERIC driver and this is noted in the post above by HRMS. In fact they have almost vindicated everything I have said all along. I am not boasting about this by any means but I do know what to look for.

 

I have been looking into Microsoft's own recommendations for this driver in how it should be used in conjunction with the usbser.inf file in previous Windows versions as that file calls up the usbser.sys file. In Windows 10 that .inf file is NOT required as Windows calls the usbser.sys file automatically from the system drivers directory in Windows itself.

Thus: c:/windows/system32/driverstore/filerepsoitory etc (if you go looking for those directories some may differ slightly depending on your version of Windows).

The subject matter surrounding this usbser.sys file is fascinating to say the least and one page I looked at out of MANY is linked here:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/ff538820(v=vs.85).aspx

 

I won't go into any of the material I read and understood because it won't add much to this thread except to maybe bamboozle and confuse some members (don't take that as an insult guys!!!) except to say I was engrossed in it and will continue to look into it further for my own purposes. If I do find anything that may help HRMS I will let them know but I would think their own team should already be wise enough to do this themselves without my help for what little I may or may not be able to offer. I am absolutely no expert in this field but I do take in knowledge where it is worth it and this is worth it.

 

A largely excellent post from HRMS that will go some way to help explain what is happening here. So I thank them for that as I am sure many of us will do. While only 1%(?) are having issues it is still very much to the fore that this is sorted as that group of folk can be vocal and cause damage to reputations etc. We don't (least of all I) want that to happen and neither do HRMS so a solution will be found. Time, my friends, time... that is what is needed now and a little patience from all of us.

Windows 10 is NOT an essential upgrade as has been said many times but it is human nature to want everything yesterday and for it all to be absolutely perfect when received no matter the product. We have a year to install this OS and remember MS released this as a working piece of software to the vast majority with gear it would work on straight away and only those with software and hardware that they would find difficult to test against are having the majority of issues. Yes, I know others are too but sometimes the mind boggles when folk attempt to do things like an upgrade and get it wrong and blame MS or someone else for their mistakes. Upgrading an OS should be easy we say... it is not and still requires a certain level of knowledge.

Anyway... we all know this...

 

So let's hope a solution is found pretty soon and as HRMS are working 'night and day' it may be sooner rather than later. Back to my Win 8.1 systems then in the safe knowledge that the people who should know what is going on know what they are looking for and seeking a solution.

usbser.sys? rip it up and start again!!!! lol :-)

[HornbyRailMasterSupport]

Just an update, and as you can see from the timing of this post, we are literally working night and day.

There are several factors which seem to be causing this problem, mainly linked around the Microsoft serial port driver, however exacerbated by some hardware manufacturers using USB subsystems which appeared not to be 100% compatible with Windows 8.1 and now 10.  We noted, since the launch of Windows 8.1 that an oddly high percentage of Lenovo users were having issues with using their eLink with Windows 8.1 after the operating system upgrade.  The actual number of users brought to our attention was around four or five, but represented the highest number of a particular manufacturer.  We obtained a Lenovo PC and nothing we tried would work with Windows 8.1.  When Windows 7 was used it was fine.  Then upgrading to Windows 10 also wouldn't work.

Lenovo recently (literally in the last few days) made a BIOS update available on their website for some of their more recent machines, like Flex 2 14 and 15 models and we installed this and it worked.  What this demonstrates is that the problem of the USB Windows driver is not that clear cut as a computer hardware manufacturer's BIOS update resolved the problem for some of their machines.

Incidentally, we mentioned earlier that a fraction of one percent were affected rather than one percent.  It really is a very small number of users compared to the installed user base and whilst we would like zero problems, this does put things into perspective.

This issue may not be a simple and straightforward fix as it may also involve hardware manufacturers, however something that we had been hoping for with one manufacturer in particular, since windows 8.1 was launched, has now transpired.  We understand that a handfull of the users affected by the upgrade to Windows 8.1 on Lenovo PCs may find that the BIOS update cures it for them, if their is one available for their model.  They just need to go onto the Lenovo site and download the relevant BIOS update for their particular machine.

 

[Fishmanoz]

Thats a bold statement, NO ONE, we only  know about those on the forum. Me, i will stick, not brave enough to twist. john

 

My experience with you john is you like to wriggle, so I always try to give you as little room for it as possible.  Even if I'm only 99% right, you always seem to want to be one of the special 1% and the overwhelming chances are you're not. 

[Fishmanoz]

BIOS update, interesting, and I think very few will have seen that one coming. Also seems to vindicate the not fit for purpose returned Lenovos when they wouldn't work with eLink and 8/8.1 some time ago.  And maybe the same problem for other non-working brands.

 

Somewhat irrelevant but interesting, it reminds me of buying all the parts to build my own desktop some years ago.  Installing the driver for the hi res video card I'd bought caused complete shutdown of video until I installed a BIOS update.

[Augustus Caesar]

So once again I was right in the statement I made earlier about certain motherboards USB sockets and BIOS/driver issues being at fault. It had to be this all along. Maybe it's down to timing or power issues on those sockets... either way if a BIOS update is fixing the issue for Lenovo boards then the motherboard manufacturers in OEM machines (system builders like myself will use these) or companies who make or sell the laptops, like Dell, HP or Acer or whoever should also consider forcing a BIOS update to fix this problem for Windows 10. It is probably being looked at anyway as the fault will almost certainly cause other hardware to fail now. The eLink will be just one of many. As this driver is loaded automatically by Windows 10 and used as is on its own it will be easier to correct via a BIOS update as the driver itself appears to work for some but not others. Therein lies the clue.

 

What this means in the short term is that users who have PC's or laptops that can update the BIOS from WITHIN Windows can do so via a shortcut on the Start button where for an Acer for example the link may be there in their folder for automatic updates etc.

Those who don't have that opportunity can still update via downloading the BIOS update file from the manufacturers website.

 

A word of caution though... updating the BIOS is no fun if it goes wrong. You should either know what you are doing or ask a competent technician to do it for you. And ALWAYS have the machine plugged into the mains when doing this... the battery is no good and can be unstable on laptops.

 

It is worth checking the BIOS version on your machine and this can be done in a number of ways... in the BIOS itself or at the foot of screen on booting up on certain models. Some software will aslo read the version for you. Then check on the sites for a newer version and if it available then download and install but make sure you know what you are doing.

 

I'm gonna check for a later BIOS file for my own machines and if newer ones are available I will test them and report back.

 

Sterling words from HRMS and at least we are much further forward... thanks very much for sharing this.

[Yelrow]

HRMS, thank you for taking the time to explain the extent of the problem. Most of us appreciate, that this was a windows 10, initiated problem, and short of having every laptop/ desktop model, in your possession, the  problem could not  readily be identified, for every make of computer. You have identified Leveno, as one of the main culprits, as they were before. Once all those who are still having problems, have identified their machines, this will undoubtably help. Let us hope that other manufacturers, will agree to follow suit. This will obviously take a fair bit of time, if not  persuadance.  It may still be sensible, in the short term to return to the system that worked. john

[Fireman_Ian]

 I have just checked Dell has a BIOS update for my PC, I will install it and report back any change to Railmaster/Elite connectivity.

[Michael_A]

I struggle with the logic of this. Theres a saying about if it aint broke don't fix it. Microsoft should not be making changes to an operating system that needs BIOS updates to work. I think this confirms for me I will not be upgrading to Windows 10, unless I get a new laptop in future with it pre-installed.

 

Great discussion though, has helped me reach a decision!

[St1ngr4y]

I struggle with the logic of this. Theres a saying about if it aint broke don't fix it. Microsoft should not be making changes to an operating system that needs BIOS updates to work. I think this confirms for me I will not be upgrading to Windows 10, unless I get a new laptop in future with it pre-installed.

 

Great discussion though, has helped me reach a decision!

It could be argued that Windows 10 has identified those pc's which have faulty BIOS's. As far as "if it aint broke don't fix it", if we took that attitude, we'd all still be on Windows 3.1.

Microsoft (& Windows) is like Marmite - you either love it or hate it :-)

 

Ray

[walkingthedog]

I like Marmite and Windows 10 but not together. 

[Yelrow]

I hate both, never could stand the taste of marmite, and have no wish to have anything to do with windows 10  john

[Michael_A]

I struggle with the logic of this. Theres a saying about if it aint broke don't fix it. Microsoft should not be making changes to an operating system that needs BIOS updates to work. I think this confirms for me I will not be upgrading to Windows 10, unless I get a new laptop in future with it pre-installed.

 

Great discussion though, has helped me reach a decision!

It could be argued that Windows 10 has identified those pc's which have faulty BIOS's. As far as "if it aint broke don't fix it", if we took that attitude, we'd all still be on Windows 3.1.

Microsoft (& Windows) is like Marmite - you either love it or hate it :-)

 

Ray

There's a difference between improved functionality and changing the way it works. I buy new cars quite often, but I don't expect them to redesign the wheels........

 

Anyway, what's wrong with 3.1? Did everything I wanted. Sometimes we upgrade just beacuse we can, not because we need to.

 

Having said that after nearly 40 years I think I do need to upgrade the wife.... ;)

 

 

[St1ngr4y]

I hate both, never could stand the taste of marmite, and have no wish to have anything to do with windows 10  john

Hi John,

From reading the posts, it's easy to see who loves Marmite and who doesn't :-)

Ray

[Yelrow]

Ray, we had a Mace Grocers shop in scotland. That and mars bars, were the staple diet. john

[walkingthedog]

John I reckon you've now got to the stage that if Windows 10 was the best thing ever invented and it made everything work better than before and Microsoft threw in a free laptop you'd still not use it. 

 

It appears to me that the people who are very anti W10 are either experts on computers or have a friend, brother, mother or son who is. 

[Fishmanoz]

Or maybe they like Vegemite?

[Yelrow]

Fishy, cant stand vegemite, is that big in australia   WTD, correct, in both cases. My best friend is a microsoft engineer, and my son works in the system in dallas.  very astute of you, to work out both. there are other things, i feel as strong about, mobile phones, and Orange, being head of the list.. john

[walkingthedog]

Oh well enjoy yourself John. My Windows 10 works like a dream but then I'm not daft enough to use a computer to play trains apart from the one in my head which is Stained Glass Windows IV.