Windows 10

[choralc]

I sort of agree with John. Did not RM Support ask us to hold off untill SP1 was introduced?

 

Personally, I scratch my head at any suggestion that HRMS will fix any problem with this mass-beta-test trial. Yes, I am implying that Microsoft delivered a product that they knew was buggy and that Microsoft will eventually fix the problems that all the people who up-graded will report and release the fixes as a service pack. Either that or they will say it is other vendors' software that is at fault.

 

I for one would agree with HRMS if they held off a new revision until after Win10SP1 is released. I am glad that my Vista machine still runs RM.

 

For those who had issues with RM and Win8 which were not resolved by upgrading to Win 10 I do feel for your disappointment but I am sure that HRMS will eventually get you up and running once Win10 is domesticated.

 

[Augustus Caesar]

I said I would be back giving a low down on Windows 10 for all to read and make judgement on... well, here's my experience and verdict. Now... before I have anyone come back and say "I told you so" that will not mean much to me. I have the fortunate position to have several machines at home so services would not be lost by the laptop I used for the upgrade losing its marbles never mind Windows 8 (prior to upgrade to 8.1 from which I moved to 10) which was on the machine to start with.

 

From a machine that only had the three AV products I recommend to everyone on my Help Site and an installation of Office 2010 Pro along with ALL MS updates etc etc I made DOUBLY sure there were no signs of malicious software on the said laptop. I upgraded to Windows 10 via a downloaded ISO file from the official MS pages and burned that ISO to DVD. It was the 64 bit version as you may suspect or even ask.

 

Now, the upgrade seemed to take a very long time as I did this through a wireless connection which is spot on and always available. This was quite deliberate. When the installation had completed I went through the system settings and turned off all the unnecessary rubbish that sends reports to MS and the likes. I also checked that the laptop was still correctly connected to my server... it was. My first problem was that Defender says it wasn't working although it was to a small extent. It couldn't be turned off or on as the link for that just played dead. From there I proceeded to install RM from the version currently available on this forum (v1.61 r2). All admin rights were perfectly OK etc. However, I did notice that when attempting to give admin rights to the install file it was already granted them. That would be OK but it is not right... so, problem number 2. When installed I obviously attempted to give admin rights to the program .exe file. This, again, was already given. That was wrong... problem number 3!!

 

The eLink was picked up every time in Device Manager perfectly correctly and the correct port assigned. On running the program I was unable to register the key and after 12 attempts or so I finally decided to dig deeper. Why 12 times? Because I knew all settings were correct and that the issue was a communications one. I dug deeper and found no real cause for the problem at hand. I kept getting the dreaded 12029 error (communications) although every now and again the service did receive a communication from RM and that error did not show. My problem at this stage was the fact that RM was coming back saying it couldn't write something to my drive to authenticate the license key as I, apparently, didn't have permissions set properly. Rubbish!!! So I left it for that night and went back to it today. I found that after a couple of attempts trying to register again RM went back to saying it coudn't connect with that 12029 error message. On the fifth attempt the program registered and I had changed NOTHING. So the license key worked and the web was connected to obviously and I even had the icon lit for the eLink unit to show a connection had been made. All very nice and dandy you might say. However, Windows 10 itself was not behaving properly. I got a few spurious errors and Defender simply would not work. I don't use it so it may not have been a loss if it didn't work. However, if one program doesn't work then others may not do so. I checked a few other settings around about and began to look at some of the stuff installed by default. A lot of it didn't work.

 

My next trick was to uninstall Windows 10 and roll back Windows 8.1. I did this and the process was very quick indeed. Less than half an hour. Anyway, I again made rigorous checks and began the installation with a cabled Internet connection this time. I again used the installation disk made earlier. This time upon checking areas of the OS that hadn't worked last time I found that they ALL worked perfectly this time. So no errors on install and no errors when testing its running prowess.

 

Installing RM I used my version from the disk that came with the eLink which was v1.44. Having set all ports and necessary stuff before installing I went ahead and did the usual install. This time I got NO 12029 warnings but the software refused to connect to activate itself. I checked a few bits and bobs and decided to refresh the router (off for 30 seconds and back on to clear the router's cache). Hey presto... the software activated. Now my problem is that the icon for the connection to the eLink (handshake) is not lit. This proves no handshake takes place. Now while I can, like some others on here, run a few trains on a test track, I cannot read CV's as there is no connection from the eLink unit to the laptop and consequently RM.

 

I have spent a half day investigating this and my findings are somewhat surprising to say the least... this is where I, personally, think it gets very interesting.

 

Because there is NO connection to the eLink from RM you have to ask why of course. So what is it that stops it? Is it Windows 10? Is it a dodgy eLink unit? Is it a dodgy driver? Does the driver work correctly most of the time but when that vital request is made of the software to the eLink that the request doesn't get through? If the latter, then why not?

 

I checked all wiring and cables and connections as you should when a communications error is noted. This was all working and connected so it wasn't an issue. What I did notice was the order of errors and the stages they kept popping up previously and this time around. I also noted exactly where RM was in terms of itself looking for updates and then attempting to do the handshake with the eLink etc. This gave me a clue.

 

I decided to hunt down the culprit file that was giving the error or at least what I suspected was at fault. Before that I do want to say one or two things that gave those clues. When you connect normally and things work OK you get messages telling you what RM is doing and where the status is at for the connection before things finally settle down in order for your daily enjoyment of RM begins. So when a message saying "Connecting to eLink" pops up and THEN goes straight to "Initiallising DCC Controller" then you KNOW that the eLink is at least setting up the ports correctly in readiness for the handshake. If that handshake fails you are into RM as if it worked but with no icon lit to show communication is being made both ways between eLink and RM. OK... to the meat of it...

 

In this situation I believe that there is a problem with either the operating system's USB software being used or the USB sockets on certain boards. I firmly believe the former. Now, all three operating systems (Win 7, 8 and 10) all use a file called "USBSER.sys". This file, probably with others of similar ilk resides in the Windows/system32/drivers folder on all systems. Checking the versions of these files astonished me. The Windows 7 file is dated at 10-6-2014 and the Windows 10 file is dated 12-6-2012. The versions of these files are also curiously numbered. Windows 7 version is: 5.1.2600.9 and the Windows 10 version? Well, this is: 5.1.2600.7.

 

So, why the difference? Why earlier files? Some of you will be asking what that file does... it is a USB to serial system file and is part of the essential communications between the USB peripheral and the software oeprating it. This is probably why certain machines will run it without ill effect as the boards architecture is not the same as others that don't utilise it properly. Now that last part is not to be taken for a given as I may be slightly out with it. BUT... I am curious as to why a new OS would use an older usbser.sys file where this file is mentioned and utilised by Microsoft's own driver for the eLink. The driver itself is written by Microchip Technology Inc.

 

What next? Well, I copied the Windows 8 version of the file over to Windows 10 after renaming the original to usbserOLD.sys. I used the Windows 8 file because it is closer to Windows 10 and it was in the directory marked Windows.old when the upgrade to Windows 10 was completed. What happened when I ran Windows? Nothing awkward... it was perfect. What happened when I ran RM? Well, something slightly different... I got a script error where RM attempts to and states (for the benefit of HRMS if they read this): "Loading system settings". That error was as thus: "An error has occurred in the script on this page... Line: 64, Char: 314, Error: permission denied, Code: 0, URL: blank" with the usual continuation message at its foot.

 

So what do we make of all this? I am at this moment in time still attempting to get past that stage where the handshake should be made. I am NOT looking for quick fixes and nor am I bothered about this. I prefer to have this kind of error where an investigation can be launched and a proper fix implemented. Now, Microsoft are NOT going to sort this out unless other peripherals on a large scale are being stopped from working. SO, maybe a new driver from Hornby is a better answer altogether. I can't see that happening though as they would have to write several versions.

 

I can't say that what I am offering up here is the ipso facto problem in all this but it is a very good pointer and maybe someone else may have a bash at moving stuff around and editing files etc while I also keep banging away at it. I have since moved the usbser.sys file back into place and have been quite happy with Windows 10 on the laptop and it is by far and away a totally superior version of Windows to 8 or 8.1. Those who still have doubts should really not be persuading others NOT to upgrade. It is purely their choice. Sitting on a fence never makes for progression in any field of operation so let them be. If someone wants to upgrade that's fine... if not, that's fine too. If they are unsure... let them read the thread and make their own decision.

 

Apologies, if after reading this lot, you thought I had a solution to the issue of the unlit icon for an RM and eLink handshake. However, it may just point one or two in the right direction for their particular problem.

 

What I will say on Windows 10 installations by the way... if it doesn't work first time after the initial install just don't give up if you really want away from Windows 8 or 8.1. It might take two, or even three, attempts to install to get it right. I would also add that you MUST have all MS updates in place including updates to all other software and hardware. Windows 10 will remove Avast at times and also Spybot which may offer up an installation file for post Windows 10 installs so at least they help you out by giving you that on an install or update of Spybot. Malwarebytes remains installed and working after Windows 10 completes its operations and you have a new OS to play with.

 

A flashing screen after Windows 10 is installed can be down to the graphics driver not being updated or the card is not compatible... usually the former. Oh, and make sure you are virus, malware and spyware FREE.

[PhilAllwood]

I've upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10. Took just over an hour. No problem with anything except the communication between Railmaster and Elite. JMRI works fine so, to me, that implies the problem is with Railmaster and not Windows 10 or its USB drivers.

Phil

[GWR Greg]

Check version of USBSER on my laptop and ikt is 5.12600.8  14/1/2014. Still no handshake.

[Yelrow]

Augustus, i have no doubts about should i , should i not, am adamant, should not. My posts were an attempt to stop people rushing in, and then being unable to use their layout. as had happened with windows 8. Looks like i failed, judging by mounting problems, which, only appear to be affecting running on Elink, as elite owners, whilst not perfect, still run. john

[Teedoubleudee]

Many thanks to AC for his efforts and thorough description of his installation progress.

 

I for one will not be updating my Railmaster laptop from Win7 any time soon - what's the point? However on the basis of his review I might just update my ageing desktop - after I make some backups and create a system image and rescue disks!

 

 

[Johnde]

Reported problem of no hanshake with RMS yesterday morning, dialoge all AM.

Had to go out later so this morning have sent a reply to there last e-mail 20 min ago shall see what happens today

[ChrisSurrey]

[snip]

 

Having ruminated on this very detailed advice I thought I would try the following. I updated from Windows 8.1 to 10. Whether this would work for upgrades from 8 or 7 I have no idea, but as it is replacing a non working driver in Win 10 with one from an earlier version that did work, it seems reasonable that it should work with other Windows versions.

In the Windos/system32/drivers folder, rename the usbser.sys file  to usbersysold.sys. Then, assuming you haven't deleted the directory, copy the usbser.sys file from the Windows.old/system32/drivers file into the same sub folder in the Windows folder. Following a reboot, this seems to have got Railmaster up and running again!

 

All the above is subject to all the usual warnings about backup, at your own risk etc.

Grateful for comments/feedback from anyone else who has success.

[RDS]

@Chris(Surrey)

Why on earth do you think it is necessary to copy all of AC's post?

[Augustus Caesar]

I've upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 10. Took just over an hour. No problem with anything except the communication between Railmaster and Elite. JMRI works fine so, to me, that implies the problem is with Railmaster and not Windows 10 or its USB drivers.

Phil

Hi Phil and welcome to the forum. While I took a huge amount of time attempting to find a solution to the handshake problem I do know that some installations work first time and some don't.

The problem is NOT with RailMaster and never really has been. The fact that the USB driver file I mention is a Windows file and given that three different versions are used for each OS points to the fact that Windows 10 IS the culprit. Each motherboard has a chipset that uses the file in different ways and carries different instructions to the peripheral using it (USB operated equipment) and I do say that there may be other usb*.sys files in the windows/system32/drivers directory that could be called as part of the routine to operate said USB sockets.

I do have a lot of programming experience and although I don't have the capabilities as yet of reverse engineering Windows system files (and why would I?) I don't therefore profess to know all of what I am talking of here. I simply suggest - but I do know RM is not at fault. The ONLY thing RM programmers can be aked to do is to write a standalone driver file that ignores these usbser.sys files altogether. I did also state that is unlikely to happen any time soon.

Using JRMI or any other program is fruitless as an example. Each program uses its own routines and calls up many different flavours of Windows system files. No offence meant of course but it's like saying a Toyota car runs fine even if you stick in a Rolls engine because they use the same road.

We all hope that a fix can be found of course which will help you, me and many others get rid of the handshake problem. Keep posting because your opinion is valued highly and adds to the debate for everyone.

[Augustus Caesar]

Check version of USBSER on my laptop and ikt is 5.12600.8  14/1/2014. Still no handshake.

Hi Greg... I didn't make a note of the Windows 8 or 8.1 version of this file so I assume this is the one you noted here? I did however, use this file from 8.1 and got the error noted in my explanation above.

[Augustus Caesar]

Augustus, i have no doubts about should i , should i not, am adamant, should not. My posts were an attempt to stop people rushing in, and then being unable to use their layout. as had happened with windows 8. Looks like i failed, judging by mounting problems, which, only appear to be affecting running on Elink, as elite owners, whilst not perfect, still run. john

Hi John... like you I want to advise the best I can and sorry if I made it look like a dig at your advice. It wasn't meant to come across that way at all. I fully understand where your advice is coming from and applaud you for it. Likewise though there are many who will upgrade or not regardless of our advising abilities. So hopefully I haven't caused you or anyone else upset with my words re allowing all to choose their own 'destinies' so to speak. I'll buy you a cuppa or two at a show if we ever get to the same one... :-)

[Augustus Caesar]

 

Having ruminated on this very detailed advice I thought I would try the following. I updated from Windows 8.1 to 10. Whether this would work for upgrades from 8 or 7 I have no idea, but as it is replacing a non working driver in Win 10 with one from an earlier version that did work, it seems reasonable that it should work with other Windows versions.

In the Windos/system32/drivers folder, rename the usbser.sys file  to usbersysold.sys. Then, assuming you haven't deleted the directory, copy the usbser.sys file from the Windows.old/system32/drivers file into the same sub folder in the Windows folder. Following a reboot, this seems to have got Railmaster up and running again!

All the above is subject to all the usual warnings about backup, at your own risk etc.

Grateful for comments/feedback from anyone else who has success.

If you read the post I made, from the paragraph starting with "In this situation..." and for the two further paragraphs following, you will see that I did precisely what you did and the ONLY difference is that you don't mention which version of the file is that you used. Was it Win 8, 8.1 or even 7?

If you have had success with this then why not inform the others of the solution and exactly how you did it? As I said you only repeat the instructions I gave but you didn't allow others the benefit of the file version you used and which OS it was from. I am sure there are very eager members out there sitting waiting for this information. I would be a curious, but nonetheless, happy guy if you shared with us your info re the file.

[Augustus Caesar]

Many thanks to AC for his efforts and thorough description of his installation progress.

 

I for one will not be updating my Railmaster laptop from Win7 any time soon - what's the point? However on the basis of his review I might just update my ageing desktop - after I make some backups and create a system image and rescue disks!

 

 

I thank you TWD for your kinds words and respect your decision to hang fire on this one at least for your current RailMaster setup. I wish you well on your upgrade re 'ageing' laptop. :-)

[Graskie]

Oh dear! With Windows 10 I discovered last night that I can no longer communicate with my card reader. I usually transfer my HD digital pictures from my camera card to PC that way. Not that this has anything to do with RM on my laptop which I haven't upgraded from Windows 7 yet.

 

Never mind, some sort of driver required, no doubt, and the problem will be resolved.

[Yelrow]

Graskie, very sensible, leave your laptop on windows 7, Do you use PICASA, for your pics. Augustus, have to be a Kier, and in france. No offence taken, just hope not too many people, have played follow my leader, over the windows 10 cliff, into the turbulence below. john

[Johnde]

If people do update and then have problems the relevant people ( ie Hornby/software house) will be aware of the problem and can do something about it. Perhaps the more that have the problem then it might just bring about the fix that bit quicker.

companies don't like negative thoughts/posts about their products. Saying don't do something is almost like saying go and do something only the negative just makes more do it, just think how young children react to being told not to do something.

we play with Adult toys remember !

[poliss]

Did you update Windoze 10 after you downloaderated it Graskie?

[Yelrow]

Johnde, hi, you appear to have missed the point, All these problems, as pointed out by Augustus Caeser, and Hornby support, are nothing to do with their product, elink, or , Railmaster, and all you guys are doing, is passing the problem by your jumping the gun, to Hornby, who are then expected to help. Read Graskies post, about his photos. The net is alive with people and their windows 10 problems. If our photos dont work, is that another problem for a manufacturer. I dont think you have been with us long enough to remember the massive problems with windows 8. Again, nothing to do with Hornby. All that was needed was a little patience, to allow microsoft their updates, which are already coming in, and most of this, could have been avoided. We teach our children patience, then do the opposite. john

[Johnde]

At least the Elite works as an interface, time and no doubt the E-link will.

[Yelrow]

You are right, many of us, moved from Elink to Elite, to have the flexibilty of using layout, without Railmaster, by driving the trains, thereby, preventing having to wait to solve any glitches. john

[ChrisSurrey]

 If you read the post I made, from the paragraph starting with "In this situation..." and for the two further paragraphs following, you will see that I did precisely what you did and the ONLY difference is that you don't mention which version of the file is that you used. Was it Win 8, 8.1 or even 7?

If you have had success with this then why not inform the others of the solution and exactly how you did it? As I said you only repeat the instructions I gave but you didn't allow others the benefit of the file version you used and which OS it was from. I am sure there are very eager members out there sitting waiting for this information. I would be a curious, but nonetheless, happy guy if you shared with us your info re the file.

The point I was making, perhaps badly, was that the solution I found was simply to substitute the file from the version you upgrade from for the new one in Win 10 on the basis that RM worked prior to OS upgrade, didn't work after and the change was in this file. The version of the file would presumably vary according to the OS you were upgrading from? No idea whether it works for others but it did for me. 

[Graskie]

Graskie, very sensible, leave your laptop on windows 7, Do you use PICASA, for your pics. Augustus, have to be a Kier, and in france. No offence taken, just hope not too many people, have played follow my leader, over the windows 10 cliff, into the turbulence below. john

 

 

No, I don't use PICASA, John. I'm very happy with Photo Gallery, thanks. I would add that I haven't actually lost any pictures; I just can't upload any more at the moment, although I could try another another method direct from the camera with memory card installed in it. No hurry.

[Graskie]

Did you update Windoze 10 after you downloaderated it Graskie?

 

 

No, poliss, I circumbooberated it!

[Augustus Caesar]

 

The point I was making, perhaps badly, was that the solution I found was simply to substitute the file from the version you upgrade from for the new one in Win 10 on the basis that RM worked prior to OS upgrade, didn't work after and the change was in this file. The version of the file would presumably vary according to the OS you were upgrading from? No idea whether it works for others but it did for me. 

OK... fair enough Chris. If the change worked for you then great.

HOWEVER... for everyone... I have been digging further into this and will come up with more information very shortly.

The driver file is a Microchip etc Inc file as stated previously and is used as the driver for RM and the Elite... yes Elite.

What I hadn't realised prior was that the file is not installed with Windows 10 but is in fact installed with eLink software and also when the Elite is plugged in via USB. Now this is definite as I watched that happen 'live' as I plugged in the USB cable just for the chance to see how it worked its way into the aforementioned folder called 'drivers'.

So with that in mind I have tried some wierd stuff to make things work but so far with mixed results but no absolute final solution. If I install Windows 10 again it may well work first time which would be great but no good for those I am trying to help here so that option is not an option!

I am working on it still and will report back with my findings.. good, bad or indifferent.