ColinB

Thank you for the information Puffed Out, that is really useful to know. I have now ordered some.

Thanks Chrissaf, I assumed there was something special for Rails to put out that warning. It is nearly worth buying one to see it working.

Sadly last night my Pendolino fell and broke its coupling. It appears nobody has replacements, does anyone know if Hornby intend restocking, or on the versions they now sell, that have improved it. I can see why they designed like they did, but 4 different coupling types is a bit dumb it makes keeping replacement stock a nightmare. You could have got away with just one plus "tie rods" like Bachmann do. i did send Hornby a mail, but I am sure I will get "old model buy a new one".

I don't think so, there are tons of warnings on the Rails website about using the wrong one. Bachmann even developed a special decoder for it. I don't know if the Sapphire is any different from any of their other decoders, but Hornby don't seem to put any protection on their output ports (Functions in DCC speak) which Bachmann and many of the other suppliers do. In the warnings on the Rails website, it actually warns about the wrong decoder damaging the pantograph, so you do begin to wonder if there is some current limit logic in the Bachmann decoder. Normally you would damage the decoder, not the pantograph if you got it wrong.

I recently fitted a couple of my old locos with those old Hornby 80's smoke units. Using DCC it works a lot better because you can switch them off. The smoke oil though is still messy. The big issue though is the loco body warping.

What you need to do is to check that there isn't something wrong with your loco. Have you tried the TTS in another loco. It might be that there is a fault with the loco that has broken the TTS decoder. With nothing inserted into the 8 bin socket you need to check pins 1 and 5 of the 8 pin DCC socket are not connected to the rails. Also, I assume your Bachmann has lights check that pins 7,6 and 2 are open circuit and that when you put the body back on, that you didn't create a short with the lighting connections. Usually if it does what you are saying, it means the decoder has died. The good news is if you have broken it, there is a year long, no quible guarantee on TTS decoders.

Going Spare you could be right. Yes it is the Hornby model, I don't think I have room for the real thing. I had one that came with the scrap chassis that has the low back, I bought another on EBay because I wanted the pony truck and importantly the stepped bolt, but that also has the low back. I could not understand why there was a 5mm gap between back of extension mounting point and the body mounting point, I then acquired a complete loco and noticed. There is no part number for this part so I assume Hornby never sold it as a spare. Looks like I will be making a spacer.

Does anyone know when on the Fowler 2-6-4 tank loco, they changed the depth of the back of chassis extension (the bit that carries the pony truck). I have got two extensions which are quite flat, but I noticed on the newer one the back is much higher. Unfortunately, the body I bought requires the extension with the taller back and of course Hornby don't have a part number for this part, so I can't even Google it.

You can do the stall test, but if you want an easier way this will give you a rough idea of current. Measure the resistance of the motor, easiest to put the multimeter between the two wheels on same axle of your loco. Make sure they they are the ones that pickup the power. Use the multimeter on the ohms range. Assuming your multimeter goes down to about 10 ohms, you should measure a value between 10 and 120 ohms, dependant on the type of motor. So now all you have to do is use ohm's law V= I * R . Where V is voltage, I is current, R is the resistance of the motor. So the I = V / R, so take the maximum voltage say 14 volts divide by the resistance of the motor and it gives the stall current. It might be a bit lower than the actual value, because of the restance of the multimeter leads, but it will be roughly there. Stall currents are not good for DCC decoders, I have found even though you do your calculations quite often the decoder cannot dissipate the heat when the motor stalls and subsequently dies. With modern locos not an issue as they consume less power, more an issue with old ringfield type motors and I assume X04s.

A lot of my Ringfield motors windings are purple. Those resistance values are about what I measured on my armatures. I have done a lot of work on these lately, one thing to check for is small bits of gravel or dirt stuck in the ringfield wheels, moulded wheels. Go round then with a needle or the like. I could not get one of my motors to push the Duke of Sutherland and it was getting hot (actually burn out my DCC decoder), until I found it. Also check that the brass gear is not "freewheeling" at high speed. The other thing that is very important, or it was on mine, is where the join of the flexible magnet is. I removed mine to drill out the brush locating screw for DCC conversion and couldn't understand why it ran so slow when I rebuilt it, once I got the position of the magnet sorted it ran perfectly. The best way to check is to run the motor backward and forwards using the power supply, it it goes much faster in one direction the magnet is wrongly placed. I don't think ringfields loosing their magnatism is as big an issue as X04s.

I am surprised about Bachmann, they have always been really good. When I wanted a pantograph part, they admitted that they didn't do that separate, but I could buy either the pantograph or the whole body with it on.

Yes, I tried the direct fit one, I think it was the gaugemaster. I found like other people it either involved cutting the pillars down, which was a no,no to me on a new model. I then tried another make direct fit, I think that was too wide. Fortunately, I was just starting with DCC so I moved them to other locos. I modify my old tender driven locos, but not on any of my new ones they are not worth much. I agree with someone else, ask Hornby, they will have tested it and I suspect with their own make decoder, so they should know. Are you sure the coal load doesn't pull out?

I bought one of these made by Oxford. I spent ages trying to find a decoder that fitted, I even mailed Oxfords, and they came back with a very expensive US one. Tried loads but none fitted without hacking the body. In the end I found the coal in the bunker came out and surprise surprise, this is where the designer meant it to go, as there were holes to allow air to get in for cooling. In the end I used a standard Zimo. If you are really stuck Zimo make a real didy one, but it is £34.00.

To be quite honest the dummy car decoder only controls lights and sound so there is not a lot you would want to program. They recommend putting a resistor across the motor outputs to restore the programming capabilty. I think someone recommended about 1 kilo ohms. You have to do the same when you use a decoder as a function decoder.

Both modules are the same. A good idea would be to check if the second one plays all the sounds, if so then then there is a fault with the first one.

Yes, my Selby Hall does it over points at a certain speed, but not all the time. I just think the front bogie is a bit floppy, you could do what I did with my Tornedo and buy an old Horny loco pony truck spring and cut it down until the bogie stops derailing.

It sounds like you have it sorted anyway. Usually the biggest issue is getting the TTS decoder and speaker to fit, but as you say if you fit a sugar cube speaker you should be ok.On later DCC Hornby locos the DCC socket is in the tender which unless you want to do a lot of wiring changes, you have to put it in the tender, but in your case you are OK. My Tornedo was like that.

Bure Valley Models are really good bought 2 locos off them, not only very cheap but you are helping a preserved railway. They also came very quickly. Hornby are also very slow at responding to anything, I have waited up to a week and that was before the virus, compared to its main competitor usually within a day.

new modellers shop have two in stock https://www.newmodellersshop.co.uk/hornby_spares/x9343_hornby_spares_tender_chassis_assembly.htm

Don't hardwire the 8 pin socket, that removes an awfully good debugging tool, plus you cannot revert back to DC easily. Also it makes it difficult to change decoders. Just look at the socket if it is faulty put another one in. I have converted loads of my old Hornby tender based locos and I always use a socket for the good things it gives me. I only wish someone would make a decent PCB based socket, unfortunately the Hornby ones are awful and the cloned ones you get on EBay are too big. I agree nothing wrong with the decoder if it works in other locos. I suppose the only other thing to check is on the 8 pin socket check there aren't any shorts across pins you don't use, pins 2,3,6 and 7 unless you have lights on the black 5, just in case on the newer TTS decoders Hornby have changed the way they drive those pins.

I have had a long standing order for R3632 Air Smoothed Merchant Navy 35024 "East Asiatic Company", which I cannot understand it should be just a recolouring on an existing model, but who knows, perhaps it is one of the tooling sets that got thrown away. It is funny I remember when I was young going down to the toy shop to buy Triang new issues to find that they were late, in the end I used to just give up. Things don't change much, although Hornby seemed to be able to rush out that Captain Tom very quickly. Some of the "Rails" special editions take forever.

I have just read your post again, noticing the squeaking noise. I would say the worm gear is not engaging with the drive properly, hence the high load as the motor is going into stall, causing high current. Definitely send it back, it might have damaged the gear. Ask them to test the next one before they send it. Hattons did that with a TTS decoder replacement for one that failed when I bought it.

I haven't got Kilverstone Hall but I have Serlby Hall which is the weathered BR version of the same model. I just tried it round my layout and other than a tendancy to jump the points it ran perfectly well and reasonable fast. It was too fast for my long sweeping bend, which means it is as fast as my other newer Hornby locos. While I was doing a search, I can across this entry in this forum, which basically says it is a good loco. https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/kilverstone-hall-b17-16538/?p=1 Looks like you are a bit unlucky, have a quick check round the wheels on loco and tender to see if anything is touching. It sounds like the motor is pulling too much current that is why the controller "trips out", so it sounds like something is not working properly. It needs sorting out or else it is a new motor. To go slow, it has got to be something not working properly, it could be gears not messing properly, valve gear stuck or tender not moving properly either way you don't want to be fixing it, in case you break it. It looks like a return job. These things cost a fortune so you should be happy with what you bought, anyway it should not trip out your controller. I assume you are buying these mail order as with "lock down" that is all you can do. The few I have bought in model shops (generally when on holiday around York) they always test them before they sell them to me. I must admit you got me worried, I had only got round to checking my B17 on a metre length of track before I added DCC, so I had never really tested on a large circuit, but I have now. Generally all the Hornby locos I buy new are ok, you must be just unlucky, although on this site you do read about a wide variety of issues.

Yes, on some carriges and wagons you need to add weight because they are so light they derail. I had to do it to my Lima DMU. I only noticed the weight in the dummy car when I tried to get my Ringfield based Sir Nigel Gresley (upgraded to 5 pole) to pull my HST without the driver unit, it was slipping like mad. Even without the weight the trailer unit is still heavy, it has weights on each bogie.

I doubt it is a current draw issue. In my experience if it is a current draw issue you normally have a dead decoder, the Hornby ones aren't very robust. A favorite I have found is the pins on the decoder, some are thicker than others and in some of them the gripping mechanism in the pin in the socket is broken. So on your Black 5 have a look at pins 1 and 5 on the 8 pin socket. So possibly the other decoders have slightly thicker pins and the socket connects with them better. The A4 is a slightly older design, so may use thicker pins. I had this same issue with a Zimo decoder. I have a Black 5 fitted with the TTS decoder and it does work although my one is a Hornby. I mean RAF96 is probably going to pull me up, but electrically the decoders are all the same, unless the Black 5 has something special in its "back emf" detection software, but I doubt it, usually always mechanical. Also look at the 8 pin sockets on the different locos, Hornby sometimes use 8 pin dual in line socket strip other times individual sockets soldered into the circuit board. You could snip the capacitor off across the motor that might be causing issues, but as you say another decoder works ok. Does your Black 5 have an 8 pin socket or 21 pin one?