ColinB

Sam adds the price into his rating to indicate if it is value for money. It helps the buyer decide whether they really want it. Hornby and Bachmann frequently release an old loco design at their new prices, his analysis helps you decide whether it is worth purchasing the brand new one or opting for a second hand one. Seeing as most purchases these days are through mail order, to me it is a very useful rating, but then we are not all the same.

Yesterday I went through my old EBay sales and two years ago I was paying about £40 to £45 for second hand ones or new "old stock" ones.

I don't think the hobby is being priced into non-existence although I do think some companies are over optimistic as to what they can charge but then that is the reason that they have excess stock. There are other companies that are more realistic with their prices. My usual task is to compare models between manufacturers and work out if there is a reason for the excessive price difference. My favorite is a Hornby recently released class 87 and the Accurascale class 92. Just read the specs for these two models especially the lighting and pantographs and explain to me why the Hornby one is £40 dearer. The Hornby class 87 is a repainted old model with fixes to its PCB to be able to fix a HM7000 decoder. The Accuscale model is totally new designed from scratch, so should be substantially more expensive. You can do the comparison with both Hornby and Bachmann models, Sam pulls these two manufacturers up regularly when he compares them with Dapol and Accurascale. Sam recently criticized Bachmann over their class 90 price, but again compare it with the Hornby class 87 and it is value for money although still expensive. The only ones you cannot compare is the large Hornby steam locos other than say the 9F because there are not the equivalent locos make by the other cheaper manufacturers. Even with the 9F I have the latest Hornby and the latest Bachmann. Yes the Hornby is a lot better than the Bachmann in look and feel but then you realise the Bachmann I bought with Zimo/Loksound fitted was only £20 dear than the current Hornby 9F retail price without. I also agree with LT&SR_NSE, I adopt a similar strategy.

The Rapido Dynamometer is completely different so that is definitely an unfair comparison. It was a special order which would increase the price. They originally were only sold by Rails and Rapido. I can't remember what I paid for mine, definitely not £150 but I bought it as it was unique. The detail level surpasses a Hornby coach and not that it adds much cost it also has lights, the coach in question doesn't. The expense Bachmann ones also have lights. I put that in the same category as buying an HD Sir Nigel Gresley when you could have bought the plastic bodied version for £100 cheaper. Interestingly my local model shop had them on sale which tends to prove that Rapido were having issues shifting the second batch as originally it was limited to Rails and Rapido. If you go to the world of plumbing a designer radiator is tons more expensive than a bog standard one. They don't shift the numbers so the design costs are shared by less numbers and the high cost of the designer one appeals to people who want something different. To be honest I don't pay that sort of money for a coach, I have some Bachmann DCC fitted ones I bought in a sale but there again I added in the cost of me fitting lights and a DCC controller and figured that they were a bargain at 20% off. If someone wants to, then that is entirely their choice.

As I said in an earlier post Bachmann carriages are expensive. I am pretty sure my teaks weren't that expensive although I did scan for the cheapest prices.

That is how come I have 3 DCC controllers bought two and fixed them. I too am a retired Electronics Engineer but more into software. I must admit surface mount I have difficulty with I was really pleased when I fixed a LokSound v3.0 sound decoder by replacing the diodes but that was a one off, although a lot of my locos are ones i bought broken and fixed. As to the coaches their prices will eventually rise but I think that certain manufacturers are pushing the price to a point where there is no market. It is a bit like locos, some are worth the price hike others are not. Sure Hornby has to make a profit or they are no more but if the market dies through unrealistic prices then the effect is the same.

I think that they are trying to catch up with Bachmann. I also notice that it is the Bachmann coaches that are always in sales, so perhaps they have difficulty shifting them at that price. I bought my non Railroad Teaks second hand, I found if you wait long enough you can get them for reasonable prices.

The reason I started again is a finally got it to work after the mess ups with the wrong app. Yes you are entirely right if you did your cost analysis with an Elite, but most people don't. I paid about £180 for Digikeijs ok I had to buy a cheap laptop but that is useful for other things (accessing Excel for loco ids). I think there are even cheaper options out there. You can even buy a really cheap option on EBay if you make it yourself, a guy at work actually did that. I still don't see how you would want to keep reprogramming it, I did it 3 times to check that it wasn't the file (once with specified sound, once with default, once with specified sound) and I was amazed how long it took. Generally if you want to reprogram it as another loco it means taking it out and moving it to another loco. Not a good idea. As far as I am concerned the subject is closed.

I know 96RAF I found the DCC option on the menu. As to the power supply I am surprised the one I have isn't recommended, it is 12 volts pwm so generally the input capacitor should smooth it out and it is a Hornby one so I just assumed it would work with their own product. I assume that the output driver required a higher voltage to make it work properly which it gets with DCC and lets face it what is DCC, a pulsed output not dissimilar to pwm. Either way it works but it does raise the point if I have to use my DCC controller to make it work properly why bother with Bluetooth other than to load the profile. I might buy a power bank to see if it works better but the price gets very close to the more established sound decoders. As a matter of interest why does it take so long to program it?

I don't know if anyone has posted about this. I finally got my HM7000 to work after getting it back from Hornby. One of the issues I found was the sound was terribly distorted using a basic Hornby power controller. I was on the verge of sending it back when I decided to do the same test on my layout with the DCC controller. Surprise, it worked perfectly so I assume this device needs higher voltages than a cheap Hornby controller from a Pendolino set. I must admit the sound is really good. The other thing I noticed was the time it takes to program the sound into the decoder for my Merchant Navy application it was taking 20 to 25 minutes which seems an awfully long time compared to the reprogramming apps I am used to. It still has the issue of easily loosing the DCC signal, just like TTS but I assume that is why Hornby gave the option of adding a external "stay alive". The other thing is to get it to run on DCC after using it on Bluetooth you must change the configuration on the Settings menu.

I assume as with all firms it depends on who you get. I had to phone them twice and on both occasions I have got wonderful Jackie who is very helpful and pleasant, plus she always sorts out my query. Email is not so bad these days, usually it is about two or three days although last week it was about a day. From my posts you will see that I am usually a critic of Hornby but I must admit their telephone Customer Service is excellent.

On my DCC layout I have isolating sections on all my points. For a start they are all electrofrog so you need some form of isolation. I do as I used to do with DC, have an isolating length of track before each point so if the point is in the wrong direction the loco stops. Ok the loco will no longer make noises if it is a sound based one but in my case stops a short happening, if you have the right DCC decoder you can even get it to still make the noises but not move. I must admit so far I have not got this function to work. The section of isolating track is energised by a relay driven off the point. To me there is really no difference between a DC and DCC layout the only difference as with my layout where I have 4 tracks, on DC I had four controllers, on DCC you parallel the four tracks together and control it from one controller.

That is an interesting thought, seeing as Simon was the motivation for new designs of loco, I suppose they will just recirculate their existing designs with different names and numbers, but who knows? Can't say that Paperchase was a roaring success but perhaps that was just due to external influences.

Sorry atom3624 you are right, I forgot that the streamlined ones are different. The ones I build are normally non streamlined. I do know that Hornby have changed the rear screw several times.

I don't think Hornby have changed the body design on the Duchess since the old tender driven days. That is how come it is so easy to upgrade the tender driven locos to loco driven, although a bit of filing is sometimes needed. Reason I say that is generally the body on all of them is held be two prongs on the front of the chassis and a single screw at the back. The way the single screw is used changes, on this one it is a long shouldered screw with a small thread at the bottom. Someone may have bodged this as those screws are extremely difficult to come by, make sure it is fully out. I have build loads of these from bits. The thing it might be (if it is not a speedo drive causing the issue) is the DCC decoder socket. On some Rebuilt Scots and Patriots the socket PCB is just too wide for a sensible fit into the body. You can push it in but the fit is so tight it won't pull out once it is fitted. Unfortunately if this is the case you sadly just have to use brute force and just make sure you don't hold onto to anything that will easily break.

I did preorder a loco last night after reading the free magazine they sent me although I hate doing it. I realised that the loco is not due out until 2024 and my 10% discount for being in the club will have expired by then, so I did preorder it.

Mine had foam supports front and back, so it didn't flop.

Selling to the public is hassle but on paper to a boss trying to save money it looks good. You miss out the middle man and make more profit. Even the "on line" clothing shops are beginning to realise it is not that easy, their big issue is "returns". I know my old firm avoided it although they bought a share in a Main Dealer, even that didn't do too well. I hear differing reports. Whenever I try to send anything back to Hornby it is get a return number and then write a letter to include in the return then take it to a Post Office, someone else said that they got a prepaid sticker when they did a return. Either way "returns" are one of the big issues for any supplier. Then I get the opinion that they are not really geared up for retail. I buy a lot of spare parts to rebuild locos, buy them from Hornby and is takes about a week for them to come. Buy from the likes of Peters Spares etc. it is about a day, even Lendons who states that he only posts a couple of times a week normally beats it. As a good guide even Amazon stated recently that it doesn't make that much money on retail, most of its profits coming from computer services.

Yes that is how I thought it worked.

I totally agree with your comments SteveM6 and that is the reason I preorder, but I think that they will have trouble shifting it at £300, £270 is probably debatable. That is why they have so much excess stock. There again I might be completely wrong. I thought they had dispensed with the 10% discount for club membership.

Just to finish this off I got a mail from Hornby today giving me a case reference number for a return. Fortunately I saved the box so I still had all the details.

You missed the point it was a humorous reply to 81F's post that he had waited 8 years. As to the locos virtually all the ones I have preordered from the last 3 catalogues are still on preorder and they are all not new builds. I think the Yesterday program made it worse because we now know when many were designed.

Obviously that is why our hobby doesn't appeal to a child. Perhaps in Hornby's case they would be better off having an abridged catalogue, or a catalogue that contained locos they haven't got round to making so the list of unfinished designs didn't get longer and longer. At the moment with their finances limited as you guys keep telling me, they have no chance of ever catching up. The catalogue at the moment becomes a list of what might be available in a couple of years time. Lucky it is not like one firm I worked for, the average lifespan of an Engineer was 2 years before they left, then the replacement made all the same mistakes.

I must admit I asked the question because it completely baffled me as to why you would configure it that way. It was annoying as when I do the DCC decoder to tender conversion I try to make it as neat as possible so two joints where there is only a need for one upsets me. There is also the fact that an "inline" joint is normally a point of failure. I will eventually take one of the new A1s I got off TMC cheap, apart to see if the lead is the same in them. Up to now I have only worked on the previous A3/A4 chassis. I suppose I could take the loco completely apart and replace the pickup leads with longer ones.

The thing that surprises me a two rail HD loco is usually a lot cheaper than a Wrenn, but basically they are the same. Surely the Hornby Dublo two and three rail locos are the same except for the pickup arrangement and different front and back bogies. I know years ago I converted my 2 three rail HD locos to two rail using Wrenn parts. When HD were going they used to advertise the loco in the catalogue and you just picked whether it was two or the three rail option you ordered so the bodies are exactly the same, I don't know about the tenders though. I know Wrenn used Hornby plastic tenders.