Hornby HM2000 for Thomas and Percy set

[Georgian Lady]

I own the Hornby Thomas & Percy train set HO gauge that comes with a remote controller that transmits a signal to a station box that runs the trains and produce sounds. I have also the West Coast Highlander with a standard hornby controller. But I was considering getting the HM2000 power conroller and perhaps using it along with the Thomas remote control that works really well for my son. The layout I am trying to get it right is a three oval loops that are connected each other aiming to make the trains travel from the inner to the outer loop and in the opposite direction (outer to inner loop). So I have three trains, three loops and not idea how to achive making them getting everywhere on the layout whithout making a mess with the points. I thought perhaps would works to run two trains with the HM2000 and the third one with the Thomas remote control. The main reason for choosing the HM2000 is because I cannot get the standard control  and the remote one working properly to control the three loops and I would like to add solanoid motor points which I also need to connect to a power unit (e.g.HM200?) Any suggestions in this subject please?

[Chrissaf]

When you want to control multiple trains in a DC Analogue Layout, you need one controller per train being controlled. So for three trains (locos) you need three controllers. The HM2000 being a Dual Controller is equivalent to two individual controllers. The other thing is that it is best to separate the layout into a different electrical track circuits on a one per controller basis. The track circuits are created by the fitting of R920 Insulated Track Joiners at strategic locations...see the guidance for R920 locations in the drawing below.

.

Just for the sake of crystal clarity. Under DC Analogue control you can only individually control one loco at a time on a track circuit. If you end up with two trains on the same track circuit they will both respond to the same controller. Individual train control that is independent from one-another is only achievable if all the locomotives and control equipment is upgraded to DCC control....see Chapter 6 in my PDF document mentioned further below.

.

The drawing below is purely an indicative schematic to aid description. See the post linked to below in the 'Additional Reading' section for an explanation of why I have selected the specific track power connection locations for the three power controllers.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/9a2a91148a110b195e64bb68c6b72bef.jpg

In this example, the three ovals are split into three different controller domains Green, Brown & Blue. When you want to drive a train from say the Green oval to the Brown oval. You set the points to create the cross-over route. Then the Green & Brown controller need to be set to the same speed and forward / reverse direction (so the that voltage polarities on the rails match). The train will then traverse across the insulated joint and leave the Green controller to be picked up by the Brown controller.

.

The addition of the R920 Insulating Rail Joiners ensures that the three controllers are electrically isolated from one-another so that they don't interfere which each other when they are controlling trains on their own dedicated track circuits.

.

The HM2000 auxiliary power output 16 Volts AC makes an excellent power source for operating Solenoid point motors, on one proviso. That proviso is that you include a CDU (Capacitor Discharge Unit). The CDU takes the low current output of the HM2000 and converts it into a high current pulse that is perfect for robustly operating Solenoid points. The "GMC CDU" one shown in the schematic is marketed by Guagemaster (Hornby do not make them). CDUs are not compatible with Hornby R044 point operating switches but are 100% compatible with PECO PL-26 point operating switches or any general electrical 'sprung to centre-off, momentary action change-over' switches.

.

All product images below with pricing information are taken from eBay.

.

/media/tinymce_upload/c76a9dac66ed6dcee87f27f5f38c2085.jpg

.

The switches above require wires to be connected using a soldering iron and solder. If you feel that this is beyond you, then you could use the PECO PL-26 switches installed in a PECO PL50 console. This PL-50 / 51 switch housing product uses spring clamp wiring termination (no soldering required).

.

/media/tinymce_upload/e04c7bec208394ec208dfc5cb34c0af0.jpg

PECO PL50 Housing and PL51 add on expansion unit.

/media/tinymce_upload/a69cd5ec65003f6f88a6eb163d33a3be.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/5dfeef9140b836d0d1e6923ea38a3b31.jpg

As you can see. If you can solder there is a huge cost saving to be made.

.

Finally, the switches and CDU connect together like this:

/media/tinymce_upload/f71529932512eb25620a9d60185a9e04.jpg

The 16 V AC supply on the left hand side is the same as the AC Aux output on the HM2000. The centre item marked switch is either the generic electrical switches (red ones) or the PECO PL26 ones in the images above. The point motor on the right can be any Solenoid point motor of your choosing i.e Hornby R8014, Hornby R8243 or non Hornby branded solenoid point motors.

.

Additional reading resources:

.

I suggest having a read of my reply in this recent thread. Potentially a little more complicated than what you are proposing, but it does give an insight into the potential complexities of DC Analogue power distribution that you might face:

.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/power-help-for-large-oval-layout/?p=1

.

I also suggest having a read of my PDF document located at the top of the General Discussion forum in a 'sticky thread' entitled 'Getting Started, including Track Extension Packs'. You would need to focus primarily on Chapter 5.

.

TIP: I write long posts. If you intend to write a reply, it would be appreciated if you didn't use the 'White Arrow in Blue Box' button. This is not a 'Reply to this post button. It is best to write any reply you want to make in the 'Reply Text Box' at the very bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

 

Particularly as my reply includes an image. If you use the blue button, any reply you write, may be held back for image approval. Even though it is already a previously published image.

[Georgian Lady]

Thank you for the links and your suggestions. I have a few questions. I would attack first, a sketch of the layout I am trying to set up. It is based in one of the hornby plans (the second pic is the Hornby original plan). In my plan the brown line is a raised track; the blue lines are the points that join the loops and the arrow indicates the direction of forward travelling. The main station is inside the first grade loop and the sidings here are locomotive sheds and a loading area. The middle loop is a second grade and the third is a bit separated from the other two, so I am using R609 curve but combined with flexitrack to be able to fit into the 6x4 baseboard. I put three green circles to where I would locate the power clips. T

1st question: I would get a train to travel in both directions for the three loops with the power clips in those locations?

2nd question: Do I need insulated rail joiners in the middle of all points that connects two tracks?

3rd question: Can I use the PECO  PL26 switches with hornby solanoid motors or do I need to use PECO point motors?

I am still reviewing the content you left me but I would appreciate if you comment on this sketch if you see something I should change. Many thanks

/media/tinymce_upload/3f2da073be074b97917b01193217d4b9.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/60be68a5483a2becdd846988bb02807d.png

[Chrissaf]

I'm impressed.......you certainly seemed to have taken in and understood the details and content of my first reply.

.

In response to your three questions:

.

1st question: I would get a train to travel in both directions for the three loops with the power clips in those locations?

.

Your positioning of the track power connections is near perfect. The only slight addition I would suggest is to add a second power connection from Controller 2 to cover the left hand side of the layout Or move your original power connection over to the left hand side and do away with the one on the right (dotted line)......see revised drawing below.

/media/tinymce_upload/20cfce3d640270096fa85c8f26370449.jpg

.

2nd question: Do I need insulated rail joiners in the middle of all points that connects two tracks?

.

The middle of the cross-over points is the optimum location for R920 IRJs. See the yellow dots in the drawing above.

.

3rd question: Can I use the PECO  PL26 switches with Hornby solenoid motors or do I need to use PECO point motors?

.

Yes, you can use Hornby or indeed any brand of Solenoid point motor with the PECO PL-26 switches.

.

General observational comments:

.

There are two possible potential problem areas with the proposed design. See 1) & 2) below, plus one suggestion 3) to reduce PL-26 switch costs.

.

1) Modern light weight locos really struggle to haul anything up gradients. Most on here advise that gradients should be avoided unless on a very large layout where you can get straight runs on the rise. Gradients on a curve increase drag. Even then, the 'rule of thumb' is a gradient that does not exceed 1 in 30 and is preferred at 1 in 50.

.

So a 1 in 40 (average) equates to a rise of 1 cm in a run of 40 cm. So to rise 6 cm [2.4 inches], a 1 in 40 gradient would need 2.4 metres [8 ft] up and another 2.4 metres [8 ft] down again.

.

You will see (and find) many Hornby plans that have gradients in much smaller layouts, but these plans were originally drawn in the Triang days when locos were much heavier, had more powerful motors than today and had 'Magnahesion' (the use of magnets in the loco that increased traction against steel rails.....modern track is Nickle Silver and does not attract a magnet).

.

In my opinion, a 6 x 4 ft layout is just too small to reliably incorporate any form of gradient.

.

If you are just after the visual appeal of a bridge crossing the river. Keep the track flat, but cut away the baseboard (create a valley) along the route of the river. Then you can still have a bridge that looks correct but without the issues of a gradient.

.

2) The curved points on the right might be a magnet for loco and rolling stock derailments. The Hornby R8074 & R8075 curved points have a reputation for increased cause of rolling stock derailment. In your case, this could be compounded by the close proximity of the start of the gradient rise. Many suggest replacing the R8074 & R8075 curved points with PECO ST-244 & ST-245 curved points that seem to be more reliable. Note: PECO ST track is compatible with Hornby track and Hornby track geometry.

.

You will also need this information to utilise curved points to join two ovals together.

.

/media/tinymce_upload/ec04ba98c47ee458d90b54cc662dec88.jpg

.

Note that if you do use PECO ST-244 & ST-245 curved points, then use PECO SL-11 Insulated Track Joiners instead of the Hornby R920 ones to connect the two curved points together.

.

3) Since some of the the points operate together in pairs i.e there are four cross-over locations between ovals. In order to have a functional cross-over, then two points need to be operated together.

.

That said, and just to be aware. You can wire the two solenoid points motors that form a cross-over to the same PECO PL-26 switch. Such that throwing the switch operates both points in the same cross-over together. This means that you only need four PL-26 switches, one PL-50 housing and one PL-51 add-on expansion housing to control the four cross-overs. It is not necessary to install 8 x PL-26 switches on a 'one per cross-over point' basis.

/media/tinymce_upload/bf2b02229ad09c5d5dea49e1c1db35ed.jpg.

Plus, of course another 4 x PL-26 switches and 4 x PL-51 expansion add-on units for the four individual siding points. Making 8 x PL-26 switches, one PL-50 Housing and 5 x PL-51 expansion add-on modules in total.

.

.