JJ73 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Hiya 😀 I've just noticed some thing about the 'H-Class' - /media/tinymce_upload/79a942891eb70cb678a6a279b5485879.JPG As you can see with my BR 4-6-0 Wellbeck Abbey No. 61619 (top)& with my B17 Class 4-6-0 Westham United No. 61672 (bottom)& the same with... /media/tinymce_upload/08eaec9fb664e20936b5bde652fe3296.JPGTornado & my F.S. - they all seem to have their "Pony Truck / Front Wheels @ the front...but with the H-Class... /media/tinymce_upload/9dea56e7c2cb31222685e9bfd6e51bfd.JPG The Driving Wheels are at the front & the Pony Truck Wheels are @ the back - why is this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019  JJThe H class is a tank engine so the coal bunker is attached at the back behind the cab, and is not a seperate tender (A tender is a vehicle for carrying coal and water permanently coupled to the locomotive, usually behind the cab) . The tank engine is self contained and the water is usually carried in tanks alongside the boiler. The bogie underneath the bunker supports it and the cab. Tank engines do not require a turntable at the end of a journey because they operate safely both forward and reverse. Tender engines can only travel backwards at reduced speed, so they need to be turned so they always pull trains chimney first, to avoid delay./media/tinymce_upload/0ab1c0b5c16c86c0597163bd33ecf451.jpgMany tank engines, especially those used for shunting and for goods, have only four or six smaller driving wheels which are small enough to go under the cab, or can be accomodated in the cab without significantly hampering the crew. The H class is a passenger engine so it has larger driving wheels, which are too tall to go under the cab. Four wheels coupled were also considered freer running in those days (later ideas differ). This is a very similar R1 class which has 6 coupled wheels 4 inches smaller in diameter than the H, and was used mostly for shunting and for pushing heavy trains up the Folkestone Harbour branch. You will note the splasher is slightly smaller./media/tinymce_upload/9669f64624a5a752da62320b3d3a82b0.jpgTank engines come in a wide variety of wheel arrangements. The H class is an 0-4-4T, a very popular arrangement for local and suburban passenger work. The favourite type for shunting was the 0-6-0T which had six driving wheels coupled, but no carrying wheels. Both these arrangements were the most common. Bigger and more modern tank engines include the 2-6-2T which is like Hornby's new GWR 51xx Prairie tank, which have a pony truck under the smokebox, six coupled driving wheels, and trailing bogie under the bunker. And the 2-6-4T which is like the Stanier 4P, and the Thompson L1, where the reat bogie has 4 wheels not two. There are many other wheel arrangements.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted June 11, 2019 Author Share Posted June 11, 2019 Thank you LC&DR 😀 I know what a Tender is but I didn't know about the tank engine thing :- Tank engines do not require a turntable at the end of a journey because they operate safely both forward and reverse.  I've seen that 1st photo else where on this forum before!!! You will note the splasher is slightly smaller.Is that the scoop thing where they pick up the water as they travel along so they don't have to stop @ the water Tower to refill with water??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog RJ Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Splasher is the railway name for a mudguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted June 11, 2019 Author Share Posted June 11, 2019 A-ha - did not know that either - Thank you Rog - see every day is a school day!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Â Maybe this helps??/media/tinymce_upload/8eda3d6f5e808355ce257dbc132274b7.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted June 13, 2019 Author Share Posted June 13, 2019 WOW LC&DR 😮 that is pretty 😎 & a lot to remember!!! 😉 😀I think I know most things thanks but not sure about "smokebox dart" is that the handle which they turn to lock / unlock the smokebox door or is that the name of the door perhaps??? Clack Valve??? Boiler feed pipe - is that where they use pour in the water into the boiler perhaps??? What is the differance between a bogie & a bogie wheels (& I'm not talking about the stuff that come out of your nose!!! lol 😆 😉) Where the sand box is - there seems to be a pipe coming out of it & pointing towards the driving wheel - is that to help with the braking - i.e. more grip??? The Dome - i know most Loco's have 1 but what is the purpose of it please??? Sorry if I am asking a lot of Q's but it does show that I am intreag & interested (bet your wishing that you did post that cool diagram now!!! 😆 😉 🤔) Thank you in advance P.s. I've just saved it to my comp. then a little lter I'm going to print it out!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted June 13, 2019 Share Posted June 13, 2019 JJ - no problem - Clack Valve? A non-return valve to stop the steam pressure in the boiler blowing the water back out. I believe it gets its name from the noise it makes as it works. Boiler feed pipe - is that where they use pour in the water into the boiler perhaps? Yes It brings water from the tanks to top up the boiler, the water comes through a device called an INJECTOR, which is a clever bit of equipment which uses steam pressure to overcome the boiler pressure and forces the water in. What is the differance between a bogie & a bogie wheels . The bogie is a swivelling frame which carries the bogie wheels, it makes it easier for locomotives to go round corners. The bogie wheels are the wheels carried by the bogie. Where the sand box is - there seems to be a pipe coming out of it & pointing towards the driving wheel - is that to help with the braking - i.e. more grip? Yes, the pipe delivers sand from the sand box to the rail head to increase grip between the wheel and the rail;, on some locomotives the sand is blown by steam pressure but on others it is fed by gravity. On diesels and electric locomotives it is blown by air pressure. The Dome - I know most Loco's have 1 but what is the purpose of it please? The dome is the high point on the boiler where steam is collected so that it is clear of the hot water in the boiler. Hot steam rises higher than hot water, watch a kettle boiling and you will see this. Steam enters the pipe and is controlled by a valve called the 'REGULATOR' before it enters the cylinders. The regulator acts like an accelerator in a car. Steam is flexible and expands (and can be compressed) , but water is not flexible (and cannot be compressesd) and if it gets into the cylinders it can cause damage. So it is important to keep steam seperate from water. Not all locomotives have a dome, especially larger Great Western types and some Stanier types for the LMS, which use a long perforated pipe instead. When the steam has been collected many 'modern' steam locomotives use a 'SUPERHEATER' to increase the temperature of the steam and remove any stray water as well. This is sometimes called 'drying out the steam'. A boiler is filled with many tubes which run from the firebox to the smokebox and through which the hot gases of combustion pass, heating the water and turning it to steam. Some of these tubes contain other tubes through which the collected steam passes and being in a hot environment gathers more heat. This is the Superheater. After the steam has done its work in the cylinders it escapes through a BLASTPIPE under the chimney and as it goes out of the chimney it creates a vacuum inside the smokebox which then draws the hot gas through the tubes and also make the fire in the firebox burn hotter. It is the noise of the steam escaping from the blast pipe which makes an engine chuff. Attached to the cylinders and fed by the pipe from the dome are mechanically operated valves which directs steam to both sides of the piston in turn, These valves are driven by cranks connected to the driving axles and by clever arrangement of links which are controlled by the driver can adjust the amount of steam going into the cylinders and also the sequence, so the driver can select whether the locomotive goes backwards or forwards, and faster or slower. This is a bit like a car gearbox. In 'modern' locomotives the cylinders and valves are on the outside and visible, on older locomotives these are often tucked away between the frames and therefore invisible.  The smokebox dart are the handles which close and seal the door. So called I believe because the bit on the inside is shaped like an arrow head on some locos. The door must be a good fit to maintain a good vacuum inside the smokebox. One handle actually locks the door, the other handle is a screw which applies more pressure to seal it.Some locomotives, such as Maunsell SR types and Fowler Midland and LMS types for example don't use a dart but secure the door with clips arranged round the circumference of the door instead. These have to be tightened with a spanner, but allow for any imperfections in the shape of the door.Hope this helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted June 14, 2019 Author Share Posted June 14, 2019 WOW You impress me with your knowledge 😀 - Many Thanks 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Finally...Well I said that I'd print out the above (on page 1 of this thread) diagram of the H-Class, well now I have but what happen was - 1st the other day I realised that I'd no paper left so after a week I got some more - then the other night I thought was ready to print it out but I then discovered that my printer was out of black ink arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!! 😆 So any way I how bought some black ink - put it in my printer & finally printed it out!!!I've just stuck it on the wall above my comp. screen where I can see it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 JJPeople often refer to steam locomotives by the way wheels are arranged. Normally it is assumed that the driving wheels are flanked by smaller carrying wheels to distribute the load to help steer the locomotive round curves. The very first locomotives only had 4 wheels so the 'Rocket' had no carrying wheels in front, two driving wheels and a pair of small wheels under the footplate , thus it was called an 0-2-2. 'Locomotion' had its four diving wheels by coupling rods but because it did not have leading or trailing carrying wheels it was called an 0-4-0. 'Planet' and ' Northumbrian' which followed 'Rocket' had two carrying wheels in front, and two driving wheels under the boiler, but no trailing carrying wheels so it was a 2-2-0. As locomotives became bigger and heavier more wheels were needed to spread the load, and give more grip.'Jenny Lind' was a 2-2-2, which had two carrying wheels in front, two large driving wheels and two carrying wheels behind.All these were rigid frames. The Great Western soon needed eight wheels to support a huge boiler. Their 'Iron Duke' still had rigid frames but had four small carrying wheels at front two huge driving wheels, and a pair of wheels to support the firebox. These were 4-2-2, Rigid frames needed well laid track, especially as speeds increased because any imperfections might cause rough riding leading to derailments. Soon the four small wheels in front needed to be mounted in a bogie to give the loco more flexibility and the ability to negotiate imperfections in the track.  The most common wheel arrangement was to become the 4-4-0 for passenger and 0-6-0 for goods. The 4-4-0 was the most popular in the USA where track across the prairie was laid quickly and would not be laid particularly well. The four wheel bogie steered the locomotive which was propelled by four large driving wheels behind. The front bogie absorbed track imperfections and kept the locomotive on the track. In the UK the 0-6-0 became very popular for heavy freight work, with six wheels driven coupled by rods all the wheels could grip and transfer power to the rails. Because goods trains travelled comparatively slowly the need for leading or trailing carrying wheels was less important. Added to that UK lines were much better laid than the US, so the need to absorb imperfections in the track was less important. However in the UK too the 4-4-0 was seen as the best arrangement for running fast and throughout the last half of the 19th and first quarter of the 20th Centuries became the dominant wheel arrangement for passenger work. However for branch line work a tender could become an unnecessary incumbrance so locomotives which carried coal and water on the engine was developed so that the engine need not waste time being turned at each end of its run. This was fine for the 0-6-0, but the 4-4-0 would be the wrong way round, so the 0-4-4 tank engine was introduced.  After the First World War locomotives got progressively bigger with more wheels. Of the tender engines the Atlantic which was a 4-4-2, and the 4-6-0 took over the top spot, and later the Pacific which was a 4-6-2 replaced the Atlantic, to become the pinnacle of steam passenger locomotive development. Goods engines aquired more driving wheels, so eight coupled locomotives were employed for mineral traffic and when bigger boilers were needed a pair of carrying wheels were added in front, becoming the 2-8-0.     Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 Cot wow per usual LC I expect less than nothing from you - because of your welth of information 😀 I thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 Also...This is the "Planet" you were talking about... /media/tinymce_upload/28c4ec7bc78d569a21f5843e97468658.JPG Taken from my very big old poster called "History of Steam Locomotives"... /media/tinymce_upload/92147776584736b791cdeea9e07be5bf.JPG As you can see in the middle - it aslo show you 5 of the Men who help to shape the Railways...from left to right Richard Trevithick, Horatio Allen, James Watt, George Stephenson & Thomas Brassley!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/19196612202910b6c8ea0773054b66ad.JPG Sure is! See it at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted September 15, 2019 Author Share Posted September 15, 2019 WOW - Hmmm - I didn't even know thast place even exsisted!!! looks like a good place to visit - A must see!!!Thank you for the info!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 It is a great place, near Deansgate in Manchester. As well as Planet you can see this! A/media/tinymce_upload/912665b88ec5c1d60fa7d6dd53812e62.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 Well I'm planning to go tomorrow (on the 18/09) so I'll look out for them!!!That's a strange Looking Loco - what's the Tank thing on the front for??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 Been there today - see my Thank you thread in the Hornby Collector Club for more details!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rana Temporia Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 JJ you probably know this now having been but that huge narrow-gauge loco is a Breyer-Garratt made by Bayer Peacock in Manchester. I think this one is 3’ or 1m, I can’t remember which. They made some standard gauge examples for the LMS and one for the LNER Which lasted into BR days. None were preserved.  Hatton’s produced a model in 00 and Kitmaster used to do a plastic kit in 00. I think Hatton’s are looking at producing an N gauge model. The loco consists of a front driving ‘bogie‘ in this case with the water tank on it, a central boiler section suspended from the two driving sections and a rear driving bogie with a coal bunker or oil tank depending on how the loco is fired. There were a lot sold overseas which is where the one in the museum came from. There are several 2’ gauge examples on the Welsh Highland Railway which have been returned to the UK from Africa. This concept allows a very powerful articulated steam locomotive to be Created within the confines of the loading gauge in use on whichever railway it is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCDR Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 /media/tinymce_upload/ef8bfe438d990eada81b37c8b17622a4.JPG The Beyer Garratt type was used all over the world, especially in Africa and Australia, and some have returned to the UK where they were originally built and can be seen on the Welsh Highland Railway from Porthmadog to Caernafon working trains on 2 foot gauge. (1 ' 11.5" if you want to be pedantic!) This is No 87 just arrived at Porthmadog with a train from Caernafon. These were originally working in South Africa.  The South African and East African versions operated on narrow gauge, mainly 3' 6" but there have been standard gauge and broad gauge (for example in Spain) versions. The small Island Colony of Mauritius purchased three standard gauge 2-8-8-2 machines for working the heavy Sugar Cane trains over the Midland line which had extensive steep gradients up to 1 in 27 for many miles. /media/tinymce_upload/42141366a27a84c1d7f7e89cce179ba8.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 Thank you Rana & LC :- I kinda saw it @ the S. I. M. but it was all under wraps - you will see what I mean if you saw my video!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rana Temporia Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 JJ if you want to know what the names of the different parts are and how steam locos work I would suggest you look for this book by David Wilson which I got for 10p. /media/tinymce_upload/3a5f7f6361a644a19efc8779502a6c6d.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted September 24, 2019 Author Share Posted September 24, 2019 10p??? What where did you pick that book up from for 10p - a charity shop??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rana Temporia Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 #1 😆 Charity shops can be very good sources of railway books although they seem to be getting more aware of the value of items than they used to. I just picked up an excellent photographic book of the Ravengalss and Eskdale railway from one in Keswick for more than the published price but significantly less than it’s going for everywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted September 29, 2019 Author Share Posted September 29, 2019 Rana, this is fav book of all time, it has colour photos of Loco's from around the world :- /media/tinymce_upload/9d6b9bc830d7c22217d7dc7355579b1d.JPG I've had it for a few decades now...a few pic inside... /media/tinymce_upload/1d4c3e93290a407ede064415cb156911.JPG The City of Carlisle 4-6-2 No. 46238 /media/tinymce_upload/ef84bf0df5efe539f0c166893b89650a.JPG I've always wondered where that tunnels goes in the picture in the top right!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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