1951 festival of Britain pullman cars

[andys steam dayz]

Hi

Would there be a chance of any more 1951 festival of Britain pullman cars being released.T here must be a tooling for them as hornby r3400 train pack the last steam run of the golden arrow was released with 3 of these pullman cars in the train pack it would be nice if a golden arrow 3 car pack could be released with different car names released to extend the golden arrow train pack into a 6 car set also some without the golden arrow regalia on

 

Regards

[LCDR]

I am with you wanting these too,especially as they were the main vehicles used on the Golden Arrow from 1951 until 1972, and only ones hauled by the HA class Bo-Bo electric loco. 

 

These were virtually steel skinned type K cars but with a rectangular window replacing the oval one for the lavatory, and unlike the ones so far released by Hornby ran on Gresley bogies. 

 

Another feature which distinguishes them is that it was only the U cars and the Brighton Belle which were repainted in blue and grey in the late 1960s. The 1960 Mark 1 cars and the diesel Pullmans were painted grey and blue .

 

Yes, probably the most important gap in the availability of Pullmans apart from the J cars used on the Thanet Belle which ran on LNWR underframes.

[Tony57]

What would be nice, is a couple of different Brake Ends with the Golden Arrow insignia,

I brought a set 3 Pullman Palour Cars still in their tissue paper and poly  packageing and the certificat of authentication (split from set R1119 made 08 but 2nd series ) started looking to extend to a six car train found several 3rd series additions  kitchen etc but no brake ends, looked  in my Ramsey, no golden arrow brake ends listed. 

[LCDR]

The 1951 cars were- 

 

First Class Parlour - CYGNUS, HERCULES, PERSEUS (new)

 

First Class Bar / Parlour - PEGASUS (THE TRIANON), (new)

 

First Class Kitchen - AQUILA, ORION, CARINA , (new 1951), ARIES (new 1952)

 

First Class Brake Parlour - MINERVA (rebuild of K class)

 

Second Class Parlour - Car 35 (rebuild of K class)

 

Second class brake Partlour - Car 208 (new)

 

First class Parlour Car - PHOENIX (rebuild of K class, 1952)

 

Second class kitchen Car - Car 303 (new 1952)

 

The first run of the 1951 train behind a Bullied West Country Pacific 11/06/1951 comprised MINERVA, AQUILA, CYGNUS, PEGASUS, HERCULES, ORION, PERSEUS, CARINA, Car 35, Car 208. 

 

70004 William Shakespeare became the regular locomotive in October 1951

.

The last steam run behind 34100 Appledore was GUV, SK, SK, Car 34, Carina, Aries, Perseus, Pegasus, Orion and Minerva.

 

 For a very brief period (late 1967-early 1969)  the reversed grey / blue scheme adopted for Mark 1 and Mark 2 Pullmans and the diesel Pullmans was used on Golden Arrow cars 208, Cygnus and Carina with disasterous visual results. Fortunately more sensible councels prevailed and the modified blue/grey scheme with lining out hastily replaced it, as too it was on the Brighton Belle cars. Orion was the last car in Umber and cream in 1969.

 

On 11th January 1969 when two of the cars had been painted grey and blue the train was formed of GUV luggage van S86732, PHOENIX (ex K class still umber and cream),S307S (formerly CARINA, in grey and blue), S308S (formerly CYGNUS, now in grey and blue), ORION (U class still in umber and cream) , RMB S4033, SK S25944, BSK S34964, SK S25917, SO S3992, SK S25914, hauled by HA class E5007.

 

All the other U cars had been sold or scrapped by then apart from Car 208 and PERSEUS which were kept in reserve as spare. When the cars were repainted the names were removed and replaced by the schedule number.

 

On the very last day 30 / 09 / 1972 the formation was GUV S86731, SO S4376, SO S4065, SK S25934, SK 25944, BSK (S) 35023, SO (S) 3773, PFK S306S (ex Orion), PF S302S (ex Phoenix), PFK S307S (ex Carina), and PFK S308S (ex Cygnus). 

 

 

 

[Tony57]

Hi LC

The 3 Parlour cars I  have are Phoeinx, Hurcules and Cygnus but all have the oval toilet windows not the rectanguler window, pity as they are great looking coaches. I hope to copy your list as it will help  with getting hold of other suitable coaches.

[Tony57]

Just looked at LC&DR list of Pullman coaches, apart from the 3 named palour cars I have listed none of the other have been made in the correct outline. 

 

Minerva has been made as a first parlour car R4162 R4251  and as a kitchen first R4480 R1038 R1073 in both smoothside and Matchboard side in both guises but not as a brake first.

The ones Hornby list as Golden Arrow train coaches are Parlour 1st  Nioble, Onyx, Kitchen 1st, Cecilia, Choria, Adrian, Zenobia. (Info from Ramsey 8th edition)

[LCDR]

Unfortunately in the past the cars have been made using incorrect bodywork (and bogies) by the simple expedient of putting a different name on an existing model.  This was particularly prevelant when Hornby was getting as much use as possible out of the 1975/1980 psuedo "Queen of Scots" car tools (first issued as R229 and R233).

 

This version is still being made in the RailRoad range and sold in train sets.

 

In 2008 they issued set R1119 which had the QoS cars lettered up as Cygnus, Hercules and Phoeinx,, and previously they had issued the same car in blue and grey as car S309S. They also issued these incorrect outline cars lettered as Thanet Belle and Kentish Belle cars which were the VERY different class J cars used on those services.

 

This technique of issuing incorrect models with different name (and Number) is sometimes called 'badge engineering' copied from what motor manufacturers did to give cheaper cars a posher name.

 

 

Parlour 1st  Niobe, Onyx,   Kitchen 1st, Cecilia, Chloria, Adrian, Zenobia. listed above are K class cars used in the Golden Arrow before 1951 which were transferred to other duties once the U cars had entered service. These were genuine GA carriages but pre date the Festival of Britain. 

 

There are five distinctive types of Pullman car widely used on the Southern Railway, and LNER, steam hauled trains and subsequently on the BR Regions.

 

These are

 

'H' cars, 12 wheel stock typically used on the Bournemouth Belle. 

 

'J' Cars, 8 wheel cars built on the underframes of former WW1 LNWR Ambulance cars used on the Thanet / Kentich Belle services but also as two observation cars used for the Devon Belle.

 

Traditional 'K' Cars built in large numbers for general Pullman use and used on the Golden Arrow, Devon Belle and many different Pullman services. These had timber bodies on usual trussed underframes. Originally they had matchboarded (vertically planked) body sides, later covered with thin steel sheets to give a smoother appearance.

 

All steel 'K' Cars built originally for "Queen of Scots" and other LNER Pullman services . These were particularly remarkable because they did not have a conventional underframe with a truss between the bogies and had all load bearing bodywork. The Electric Pullmans built for the Brighton Belle and other Southern services had similar bodywork.

 

'U' class cars which had 'K' style bodies reverting to a conventional trussed underframe with separate timber framed bodies. These can be distinguised by the Gresley type bogies which were supposed to improve the ride, and the toilet window which was rectangular.  In preservation most of the former 'U' cars have been restored as 'K' cars with oval toilet windows, although retaining the original bogies.

 

I am currently using the QoS Pullmans named as Thanet Belle or Kentish Belle J cars because I cannot get the correct style cars, and the prospect of any manufacturer making them is remote, and I have not enough time to scratch build them.  The Golden Arrow post 1951 is however a different matter. Hornby make all the correct locomotives for this period (except one, the BR/SR 1Co-Co1 diesel) and could legitimately issue them in two different blue & grey period liveries.

[andys steam dayz]

Hi

It would be great if a 3 pack coach pack could br produced to go with the three coaches in the Hornby train pack R3400 Golden Arrow Last Steam Run released a few years ago as there are no suitable coaches to run with this train pack.These are the pullman coaches with the square windows rather than the oval ones I think they are either Festival Of Britain Pullman Cars or U Type Pullmans it would be great if a pack could be released in the 2022 range as you must still have the tooling from the R3400 train pack.

[dis80786]

Hi

It would be great if a 3 pack coach pack could br produced to go with the three coaches in the Hornby train pack R3400 Golden Arrow Last Steam Run released a few years ago as there are no suitable coaches to run with this train pack.These are the pullman coaches with the square windows rather than the oval ones I think they are either Festival Of Britain Pullman Cars or U Type Pullmans it would be great if a pack could be released in the 2022 range as you must still have the tooling from the R3400 train pack.

I second this! The only other way one can obtain the 1951 'Festival of Britain' Type U Pullmans is to pay £250-£350 to Golden Era Trains for their exquisite 00 models. A full rake of 14 or so coaches for the Golden Arrow is thus unaffordable to mere mortals. Come on Hornby, we'll buy them!