Train-Tech Signal Issues - RM 1.63 onwards

[PJ_model_trains]

Train-Tech Signals

 

It  does appear that there is a pattern to the Train-Tech signal faults these appear to fall into the following categories:

 

1 - Restart RM - do the signals change (on screen and on layout) to the aspect set in the default layout plan.

 

2 - Program run - through aspects - Do the signals work as they should (on screen and on layout) when run in a program working through each aspect in order (does a different decoder make a difference?)

 

3 - Program run - one aspect change - then repeat program - Do the signals work as they should (on screen and on layout) when a program is run to change the aspects once but the program is repeated (or do they toggle to the next aspect)

 

4 - Program run - Do the signals work in Programs for back down the line sequence

 

Hopefully by testing these in order we can see if they overlap each other in any way and do the results on screen vary from those in the layout, finally is there a pattern to the faults.

 

I plan to work through these again and list the results on the forum.

 

If I have missed anything please say. Thank you.

[PJ_model_trains]

2 Aspect TT signals with TT decoder

 

TEST - RESTART RM ISSUES

- do signals change to correct aspects, on screen (set opposite prior to restart) = NO

- do signals change to correct aspects, on layout (set opposite prior to restart) = NO

- do some aspects change as they should, but not all, on screen = NO

- do some aspects change as they should, but not all, on layout = YES (Not always)

 

TEST PROGRAM -RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

Having set all aspects to opposite of track plan default settings

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

4.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 194 - Stop --- TT Signal single 2 aspect

6.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 199 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

8.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 205 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

10.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 181 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

12.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 185 - Stop  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

14.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 194 - Clear  --- TT Signal single 2 aspect

16.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 199 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH

18.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 205 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

20.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 181 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH

22.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 185 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

27.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

- did all the signals change as they should, on screen = NO (none changed)

- did all the signals change as they should, on layout = NO (some did some didn't)

 

TEST PROGRAM -RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

4.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 194 - Stop --- TT Signal single 2 aspect

6.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 199 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

8.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 205 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

10.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 181 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

12.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 185 - Stop  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

27.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

- did all the signals change as they should, on screen = NO (they toggled to the next aspect on each repeat)

- did all the signals change as they should, on layout = NO (some did some didn't, some changed on repeat some didn't)

 

TEST BACK DOWN THE LINE TEST

- No need to test this with 2 aspect TT signals

The 2 aspect signals could be anywhere on the layout and the request for Stop would be the equivalent of a train passing that signal, again the later request for Clear would be after that block had cleared.

The result would be the same.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

2 Aspect TT signals with Hornby R8247 decoder (SAME TEST DIFFERENT DECODER)

 

TEST - RESTART RM ISSUES

- do signals change to correct aspects, on screen (set opposite prior to restart) = NO (None change)

- do signals change to correct aspects, on layout (set opposite prior to restart) = NO (some do, some don't)

- do some aspects change as they should, but not all, on screen = NO (None change)

- do some aspects change as they should, but not all, on layout = YES (Not always)

 

TEST PROGRAM -RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

Having set all aspects to opposite of track plan default settings

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

4.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 194 - Stop --- TT Signal single 2 aspect

6.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 199 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

8.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 205 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

10.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 181 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

12.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 185 - Stop  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

14.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 194 - Clear  --- TT Signal single 2 aspect

16.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 199 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH

18.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 205 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

20.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 181 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH

22.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 185 - Clear  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

27.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

- did all the signals change as they should, on screen = NO (none changed)

- did all the signals change as they should, on layout = YES

 

TEST PROGRAM -RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

4.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 194 - Stop --- TT Signal single 2 aspect

6.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 199 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

8.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 205 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

10.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 181 - Stop --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect LH 

12.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 185 - Stop  --- TT Dual Head single 2 aspect RH

27.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

- did all the signals change as they should, on screen = NO

(they didn't change at all - but they didn't toggle to the next aspect either)

All 5 changed from Clear to stop as program, on the repeat the single signal 'toggled' to next aspect. The two dual head signals worked and remained on Stop. On each repeat the single 2 aspect signal toggled to the next aspect

- did all the signals change as they should, on layout = YES

 

TEST BACK DOWN THE LINE TEST

- No need to test this with 2 aspect TT signals

The 2 aspect signals could be anywhere on the layout and the request for Stop would be the equivalent of a train passing that signal, again the later request for Clear would be after that block had cleared.

The result would be the same.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS

 

3 Aspect TT signals with TT decoder

 

TEST - RESTART RM ISSUES

- do signals change to correct aspects, on screen (set opposite prior to restart) =

NO  (Some change - most don't)

- do signals change to correct aspects, on layout (set opposite prior to restart) =

NO  (Some change - most don't)

 

TEST PROGRAM -RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

8 @ 3 Aspect Train-Tech signals with built in decoder

 

Set all aspects to Clear and run the program...

 

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

2.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 137 - Stop

4.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 210 - Stop

6.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 141 - Stop

8.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 145 - Stop

10.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 189 - Stop

12.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 250 - Stop

14.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 234 - Stop

16.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 254 - Stop

20.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 137 - Single Yellow

22.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 210 - Single Yellow

24.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 141 - Single Yellow

26.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 145 - Single Yellow

28.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 189 - Single Yellow

30.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 250 - Single Yellow

32.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 234 - Single Yellow

34.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 254 - Single Yellow

38.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 137 - Clear

40.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 210 - Clear

42.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 141 - Clear

44.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 145 - Clear

46.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 189 - Clear

48.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 250 - Clear

50.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 234 - Clear

52.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 254 - Clear

58.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

- did all the signals change as they should, on screen = YES

- did all the signals change as they should, on layout = NO (some did some didn't)

 

Every test was different result ones that worked showed correct or incorrect at random

 

The 3 aspect signal test is to continue 

 

>>>>> Another interesting fault has shown up which will be detailed in the next test results

 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS

 

Train-Tech 3 aspect signals (Continued)

 

The next test was to Run the same program as above [from within the Program Editor] 

Set all 3 aspect signals to Clear

Pin all commands - then unpin the Single Yellow and Clear ones leaving the following

 

TEST PROGRAM - RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

8 @ 3 Aspect Train-Tech signals with built in decoder

 

Set all signal aspects (layout and screen) to Clear and run the program...

 

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

2.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 137 - Stop

4.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 210 - Stop

6.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 141 - Stop

8.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 145 - Stop

10.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 189 - Stop

12.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 250 - Stop

14.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 234 - Stop

16.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 254 - Stop

58.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

NEXT Click the PLAY icon

 

THE RESULT

The screen signals changed to Red, each in turn

The layout signals varied - some changed - some didn't

Each time everything was rest and rerun the correct and incorrect signals varied

 

BUT - although the program was set to repeat 3 times, it stopped after the first full run.

The seconds ticked on the bottom line in yellow, followed by a message Program Finished???

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I then tried the program again, this time unpinning the Stop and Clear commands

 

TEST PROGRAM - RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

8 @ 3 Aspect Train-Tech signals with built in decoder

 

Set all signal aspects (layout and screen) to Clear and run the program...

 

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

20.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 137 - Single Yellow

22.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 210 - Single Yellow

24.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 141 - Single Yellow

26.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 145 - Single Yellow

28.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 189 - Single Yellow

30.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 250 - Single Yellow

32.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 234 - Single Yellow

34.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 254 - Single Yellow

58.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

Next Click PLAY icon

 

THE RESULT

The screen signals changed to Single Yellow, each in turn

The layout signals varied - some changed - some didn't

Each time everything was rest and rerun the correct and incorrect signals varied

 

BUT - although the program was set to repeat 3 times, same again, it stopped after the first full run.

The seconds ticked on the bottom line in yellow, followed by a message Program Finished???

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I then tried the program again, this time unpinning the Stop and Single Yellow commands

TEST PROGRAM -RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

8 @ 3 Aspect Train-Tech signals with built in decoder

 

Set all signal aspects (layout and screen) to Clear and run the program...

 

1.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

38.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 137 - Clear

40.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 210 - Clear

42.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 141 - Clear

44.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 145 - Clear

46.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 189 - Clear

48.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 250 - Clear

50.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 234 - Clear

52.00 - Signal - Controller A - Port 254 - Clear

58.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

Next Click PLAY icon

 

THE RESULT

The screen signals changed to Clear, each in turn

The layout signals varied - some changed - some didn't

Each time everything was rest and rerun the correct and incorrect signals varied

 

>>>>> BUT THEN SOMETHING STRANGE HAPPENED

 

The clock ticked to 38.00 seconds - the 'Start secs' icon showed as it should in the left hand column

and followed through 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, 52 (so far so good)

 

At this point the 'Start sec' icons were removed to start again for the first repeat...

 

>>>>> THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 52 seconds...

 

The time continued counting the seconds 53,54,55,56,57

But whilst it did so 38,40,42,44,& 46 'Start sec' icons were being added???

They did not continue the times 48,50,52 seconds as the program had reached 58 seconds

 

>>>>> THE SITUATION WAS SO OUT OF SINK AT THIS POINT i ABORTED THE PROGRAM

 

It appears there is a definite timing issue, in Programs, with Train-Tech 3 aspect signals

Although this is another issue added to the list hopefully it will help in solving the problems with TT 3 aspect signals

 

TEST BACK DOWN THE LINE TEST

- There is little point trying this at this stage as there are to many errors that need sorting out first. We can come back to this later.

 

There are a number of issues in these tests, other than signals aspects on the layout not working as they should.

 

The first test, first part of the program set to STOP didn't Repeat

 

The second test, middle part of the program set to SINGLE YELLOW didn't repeat

 

The last test, end of the program, just before the final repeat command did repeat but the timings of the clock to the commands trying to carry out were totally out of sync.

[St1ngr4y]

Hello PJ,

I too have noticed the indicators down the left of the editing window being out-of-sync with the clock at the bottom, during recent tests on Traintech 2-aspect signals. However, I put this down to a fault in the Repeat-End Repeat commands, rather than yet another fault specific to Traintech signals. 

Ray

[PJ_model_trains]

Hello PJ,

I too have noticed the indicators down the left of the editing window being out-of-sync with the clock at the bottom, during recent tests on Traintech 2-aspect signals. However, I put this down to a fault in the Repeat-End Repeat commands, rather than yet another fault specific to Traintech signals. 

Ray

 

Hi Ray

 

I put it down to a timing error last night but thinking about it in bed last night it does appear to be a repeat/end repeat issue as you say.

 

Even more so when we consider test one and two to Stop and Single Yellow aspect changes failed to repeat in the Program, but the last one, towards the end of the commands, Clear, was the one that made me wonder at first what was happening. As you know, we have each spent hundred's of hours testing signals (instead of running trains) you get a checking procedure. For me it is, what is happening on screen, did it happen as commanded on the layout, make a note, repeat, repeat, etc,

 

The first time I saw the out of sync icons on the left I immediately looked at the sime at the bottom but by then it had got to the end repeat, so you do it again and again till you can see what happens.

 

It is another fault to the list, I apologied to HRMS when I reported it but, these faults have to be noted, they have to be fixed.

 

Interesting you noticed it on two aspect signals in the program, I intend to re-test 3 aspect signals again today and will drop back to the two aspect signal again and re-test them again. I must admit my eyes were focusing on RM screen signals and layout signals rather than the program, I only looked at the program when things didn't seem to be right elsewhere.

 

Thanks for the update.

[PJ_model_trains]

@St1ngr4y

It may not be an issue but, I thouught best to report it so that it can be considered and corrected or ruled out as not a problem.

What decoder was you using? Train-Tech or Hornby R8247?

 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS   @St1ingr4y

 

Train-Tech – 2 Aspect Signals – Train-Tech decoder from RM – Test Program Editor and

Train-Tech – 2 Aspect Signals – Hornby R8247 decoder from RM – Test Program Editor

 

Same Test both decoders – This test is only checking REPEAT in program editor

 

Same result both decoders

Timer continued to last command, re-started from the beginning, although the time itself continued to the end repeat time and then went back to the start and continued until it caught up. (Same as previously reported)

 

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS   @St1ingr4y

 

Train-Tech – 3 Aspect Signals – Train-Tech decoder from RM – Test Program Editor and

Train-Tech – 3 Aspect Signals – Hornby R8247 decoder from RM – Test Program Editor

 

Same test used for both decoders set in RM (All program commands tagged and run)

 

Same result both decoders

Timer continued to last command, cleared the left hand progress icons, re-started from the beginning, although the time itself continued to the end repeat time and then went back to the start and continued until it caught up. (Same as previously reported)

 

>>> BUT another definate fault has been found on 3 aspect Train-Tech signals.

So as to keep these replies relevant to their subject in echh post, I will report the new error in a separate post.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS   @St1ingr4y

 

>>> AN ERROR and SOME GOOD NEWS

 

Train-Tech – 3 Aspect Signals – Train-Tech decoder from RM – Test in Program Editor and

Train-Tech – 3 Aspect Signals – Hornby R8247 decoder from RM – Test in Program Editor

Same test program used for both decoders set in RM (All commands tagged all tags run)

 

FIRST TEST

Train-Tech – 3 Aspect Signals – Train-Tech decoder from RM – Test Program Editor

The report for this test is as reported yesterday but I add a brief note here for comparison.

 

Aspects on the layout ---

When program called for Stop – some responded correctly, some didn’t respond

Of the ones that responded correctly they were the ‘correct’ aspects.

 

SECOND TEST

Train-Tech – 3 Aspect Signals – Hornby R8247 decoder from RM – Test Program Editor

The report for this test is as reported yesterday with this one exception.

 

Aspects on the layout ---

-          When program called for Stop – some responded correctly, some turned to Clear (ERROR INCORRECT ASPECT)

-          When program called for Single Yellow – some responded correctly not all (ERROR)

-          When program called for Clear – some responded correctly, some turned to Stop (ERROR INCORRECT ASPECT)

 

When the test was complete I checked the layout settings for the 2 aspect signals I had tested yesterday and to get them to work I reversed the polarity. So I tried it with the 3 aspect signals next.

 

RESULT OF CHANGING THE POLARITY AT THIS STAGE...

 

Aspects on the layout ---

-          When program called for Stop – signal on the layout changed to Stop! Yippee!

-          When program called for Single Yellow – NONE responded 

-          When program called for Clear – signal on the layout changed to Clear! Yippee!

 

 For the single Yellow issue, although NONE responded I guess it could be as the previous test which was random only not responded (I ran the test 3 times)?

 

Aspects on the Screen ---

-          NONE responded

 

What is now clear, to me, from the tests carried out is that, for both 2 and 3 aspect signals the TT decoder in RM does not work and has many errors, but the Hornby R8247 decoder is much nearer working. In fact EXCEPT FOR the single yellow issue noted above the signals work on my layout, they just don’t respond at all on the screen.

 

When testing my 3 aspect TT signals, all 8 signals showed signs of random working with the TT decoder in RM...

But when set for Hornby decoder one signal didn’t work at all. I am not concerned too much at this stage as I expect re-programming this one signal will solve the issue. I haven’t done it yet as I need to take the side off the layout to re-program it.

 

For the first time in over twelve months I have signals that almost work on my layout even if they don’t work yet on screen. Although a lot of issues have been raised this, for me, is good news. I am hoping HRMS will see this as a positive in all the negatives and as these TT signals are closer to working with the Hornby R8247 decoder hopeful they will fix these issues and spend more time on the deeper problems for the Train-Tech decoders later. Hopefully I can now start to program routes, something I have wanted to do for ages but instead have spent all my time testing signals. So long as I focusing on layout signals not the screen signals it should hopefully work. 

 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS

 

4 Aspect TT signals with 'TT decoder'

 

TEST - RESTART RM ISSUES

- do signals change to correct aspects, on screen (set opposite prior to restart) =

YES (3 tests same every time)

- do signals change to correct aspects, on layout (set opposite prior to restart) =

NO  (Some change - some don't - 3 tests different every time)

 

TEST PROGRAM -RUNNING THE FOLLOWING

4 @ 4 Aspect Train-Tech signals with built in decoder

 

PROGRAM (briefly)

0.00 - Program command - Repeat [3] times

next - 4 @ 4 aspect - set Stop - 2 second apart

next - 4 @ 4 aspect - set Single Yellow - 2 second apart

next - 4 @ 4 aspect - set Double Yellow - 2 second apart

next - 4 @ 4 aspect - set Clear- 2 second apart

Last signal was at 32 seconds

40.00 - Program command - End Repeat

 

RUN PROGRAM FROM PROGRAM EDITOR ALL COMMANDS PINNED

Layout - correct --- Screen - correct

 

RUN PROGRAM FROM PROGRAM EDITOR 0 & 40 seconds and  'STOP' COMMANDS PINNED

Layout - correct --- Screen - correct

 

RUN PROGRAM FROM PROGRAM EDITOR 0 & 40 seconds and  'CLEAR' COMMANDS PINNED

Layout - correct --- Screen - correct

 

The run on of the timer, after clearing progress icons in left hand column is the same as reported on all previous tests.

 

This just leaves 'BACK DOWN THE LINE' to check for 4 aspect signals.

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS

 

TO CONCLUDE THESE 4 TESTS FOR ~ 2, 3 and 4 ASPECT TRAIN-TECH SIGNALS

 

I have just run a 'BACK DOWN THE LINE' Test for the 4 aspect signals

 

The simulation included 4 BLOCKS between 4 @ 4 Aspect signals

 

The Loco started in Block-1 with a Stop signal ahead and a stop signal behind protecting the Block the Loco was in. The signal ahead changed to Clear and the loco set off (I didn't run the loco just simulated with signals setting all commands approx 4 seconds apart)

 

The Loco passed the first signal which changed to Stop (Block 1 & 2 now protected)

 

The Last Carriage passed the said signal, the signal down the line protecting Block 1 changed to Single Yellow.

 

The Loco passed the next signal changing it to Red (Block 2 & 3 now protected)

 

The last carriage passed the said signal changing the signal down the line to Single Yellow, and the signal before that to Double Yellow.

 

Every time a Loco passed a signal it changed Red, every time the last carriage passed the signal, the previous one changes to Yellow, the one before than to Double Yellow, the one before that to Clear

 

4 Aspect Train-Tech signals with decoder in base of signal, using the Train-Tech decoder in RM --- WORKED BACK DOWN THE LINE  ;o)

 

Therefore the only issue I am aware of with 4 aspect signals is start up aspects are not correct as in layout defaults when RM is started. As this affects all TT signals 2,3 4 aspect it therefore doesn't appear to be a problem relating to TT 4 aspect signals or RM running them in programs.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS

 

A BRIEF SUMMARY OF WHAT IS WORKING BEST WITH TRAIN-TECH SIGNALS

BASED ON TESTS OVER LAST COUPLE OF DAYS

DETAILED REPORT OF FAULTS SEE PAGES 3 & 4 OF THIS THREAD

 

ALL TESTS CARRIED OUT IN RM PROGRAMS AS DETAILED IN THE REPORTS

 

2 ASPECT - TT - SIGNALS - (SIGNAL DECODER IN SIGNAL BASES)

RM - USING TT DECODER IN LAYOUT SETTINGS -

>>> TO MANY ERRORS SEE REPORT

 

RM - USING R8247 DECODER IN LAYOUT SETTINGS - (Best Results)

- THEY WORK ON LAYOUT

>>> NONE WORK ON THE SCREEN

 

3 ASPECT - TT - SIGNALS - (SIGNAL DECODER IN SIGNAL BASES)

RM - USING TT DECODER IN LAYOUT SETTINGS -

>>> TO MANY ERRORS SEE REPORT

 

RM - USING R8247 DECODER IN LAYOUT SETTINGS - (Best Results)

- CLEAR & STOP WORK ON LAYOUT >>> SINGLE YELLOW DOESN'T WORK

>>> NONE WORK ON THE SCREEN

- These signals can be run using Stop and Clear for now - viewed on the layout only

 

4 ASPECT - TT - SIGNALS - (SIGNAL DECODER IN SIGNAL BASES)

RM - USING TT DECODER IN LAYOUT SETTINGS -

- ALL ASPECTS WORK ON THE LAYOUT

- ALL ASPECTS WORK ON THE SCREEN

- ALL ASPECTS WORK 'BACK DOWN THE LINE'

 

[PJ_model_trains]

The Following should have been...

 

2 ASPECT - TT - SIGNALS - (SIGNAL DECODER IN SIGNAL BASES)

RM - USING TT DECODER IN LAYOUT SETTINGS -

>>> TO MANY ERRORS SEE REPORT

 

RM - USING R8247 DECODER IN LAYOUT SETTINGS - (Best Results)

- THEY WORK ON LAYOUT

>>> ERROR - NONE WORK ON THE SCREEN

>>> ERROR - THERE IS A TOGGLE ERROR in Programs if an aspect is requested more than once for the same signal the signal changes aspect, eg. aspect Red/Stop program requests Stop again aspect changes to Green/Clear.

 

[PJ_model_trains]

IGNORE THIS MESSAGE IT WAS ADDED IN ERROR AND WILL NOT DELETE OR EDIT OUT!!!

[PJ_model_trains]

Reply from HRMS

 

Hello PJ

 

We are in the process of allowing normal decoders to operate multi-aspect signals (those that are wired directly into the ports) although the Train-tech signals should all work and indeed will.

 

Regards

RailMaster Support

[PJ_model_trains]

BACK DOWN THE LINE - CONFIRMATION WHICH METHOD USED

 

Having carried out so many tests and had time to think, I feel it important to confirm which method I used in the tests, when I confirm signals worked 'BACK DOWN THE LINE'.

 

In the past tests were carried out using, in signal programming, in Layout Design. The most recent tests did not use this method. When I stated they worked correctly 'Back Down the Line', I was using the Program in RM to program every signal and command, one by one.

 

I welcome comments from members regarding the Back Down the Line commands, I do feel that the in signal commands are to rigid and that problems will occur on a working layout. By this what I am saying is if every signals is programmed so that when a last carriage passed a said signal, the three previous change to Y,YY,G (Using 4 aspect for this example). It would only need a loco to enter the main line between the Y,YY,G, from a siding or a branch, to reset signals back down the line which could change a recently changed Red signal as a Loco passes, a signal that we do not want to change. 

 

I therefore think, the RM program method has less chance of this happening although it is down to the user and it could happen. With LD the last thing we would want is for a Red signal to change to any other aspect. No doubt, in time, we will need a built in command for signals changed back down the line, when a last carriage passes a signal (LD sensor) change signal -1 to Y, -2 to YY, -3 to G with each command having IF Red do nothing. 

 

[PJ_model_trains]

UPDATE FOLLOWING INSTALLATION OF RM 1.65

 

The following tests have been carried out so far.

 

TEST-1a set all signals to 'opposite' of start up settings then restart RM

TEST-1b set all signals (3/4 aspect) to Y or YY then restart RM

TEST-1c set all 2 aspect signals current used to set Feather/RI's to opposite of start up settings and restart RM

 

RESULTS - they ALL worked on screen and on the layout.

 

 

TEST-2 setting signals using Edit Programs option.

TEST-2a (i) change 2 aspect signals at 1.0sec intervals, in order then at random

TEST-2a (ii) change 2 aspect signals at 0.1sec intervals, in order then at random

 

REPEAT the same for 3 and 4 aspect signals

 

 

TEST-3 run TEST 2 again but this time include the Reat command x3 for each

 

RESULTS - they ALL worked on screen and on the layout.

 

There are more tests to carry out but so far so good, this is encouraging.

 

I will try complete the additional tests over the next few days time allowing and will provide an update here once completed.

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS

 

The above tests from previous issues have all so far been positive, this is good news.

 

The tests also include a 2 aspect signal for feathers which also functioned correctly. Brilliant!

 

As stated above, I will complete the tests of previously reported signal issues and add an update when I have done so.

 

Hopefully if everything is functioning correctly we will soon have Feather /Route Indicator icons in RM we can be placed near signals and use to switch the RI's on and off. As we know they are just an on/off switch like the 2 aspect signals. With these in situ and the ability to program them it will make running our trains a pleasure and will certainly enhance RM.

 

Thank you for what you have done so far.

[RB51]

Well done PJ - it must be encouraging that all your (and Ray's) hard work over many months has borne fruit. Another piece of sterling work. R-

[PJ_model_trains]

UPDATE FOLLOWING FURTHER SIGNAL TESTING WITH RM1.65

 

After extensive testing I have at last an update. It includes good news and bad news.

 

The good news is that most of the signals fixes reported previously are fixed, thank you HRMS

 

The bad news is there still appears to be 'one bug' lerking in there, please do not take as critism, there was a lot of issues to sort, we would have been happier if there was no isues, but just one bug has to be considered a big leap forward.

 

I say it is a bug, not a Train-Tech signal fault, due to the amount of testing, and  I can clarify this, I can also point to the area the bug is nested. I have asked Ray to check this also and he agrees with the findings.

 

Before I explain the method of testing, I think I should add here one additional item raised by Ray, which I also consider to be a very good point. It is clear from the RM 1.65 update that now all points have to have a sequence number at start up, this being used to set in the order when RM is started, left or right as we have pre-set them, or a zero to ignore the start up setting. What seems strange is why this method, which seems a logical method to apply is not also included for signals?  HRMS you way like to add your comments regarding this please, may be you do plan to add this but needed to clear the fault reported first.

 

I shall proceed in the next to post to do my best to explain the method and procedure of the tests carried out, and to point to where the bug is nested.

[PJ_model_trains]

UPDATE - FURTHER TRAIN-TECH SIGNAL TESTING WITH RM1.65

 

The issue found is in the 2 aspect signals, so this example and explanation will deal soley with these signals.

 

 

To check the signals I chose to run small programs from Platforms 7, 6, 5 and 4 from the plan below. In each case it the program prepared a route form the station platform to the signal before the junction to the main line. In this Block, we have 2 aspect and 3 aspect signals and 2 aspect signals used as RI/feathers. Note this is bi-directional track so one signal and RI is for trains entering the station platform (we will program changes to these also) and will also include the RI on the branch off the main line. (Switching it off to protect the Block - being a temporary 2 aspect signal this would be to change the aspect to Red).

 

Below is the section of the layout we are carrying out the test. Note 2 aspect signals used as RI's have a yellow background with red border, this is temporary until RI icons are available and only used as a means of making the RI clearly distinguishable from the signal it is close to.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/62c0c32dbefc3654f8dab59f6fea2897.jpg

 

Details of Tests carried out and findings to follow.

[PJ_model_trains]

TESTING TRAIN-TECH 2 ASPECT SIGNALS for Faults in RM1.65 as previously Reported.

 

NOTE: The tests were carried out by pre-programming to change - points, signals and RI's.

 

First Test POINTS, second Test SIGNALS and Finally Tested using Route Programs.

 

The same pre-program instructions were applied in turn to each test.

 

In each case the signals on the layout were also checked against what is seen on the screen to ensure they were the same.

>>> To rule this out - I can confirm they were the same on the layout and screen for each test.

 

 

NOTE:  Before starting each test, signals were set to Opposites

 

 

Testing from CHANGING POINTS using POINTS with Pre-programmed commands

 

TEST-1 ~ CLICK Point 17 button Green --- Platform 7

This sets - P17G, P16G (The route for the block is set)

Next it sets signals - S55R, S61R, S65R, S121R

Finally it sets RI's - RI-137R, RI-226R (R switches RI off)

Points and signals protecting and route set - then set S51G

 

TEST-2 ~ CLICK Point 18 button Green --- Platform 6

This sets - P18G, P17R, P16G (Route set)

Next it sets signals - S51R, S61R, S65R, S121R

Finally it sets RI's - RI-137R, RI-226R

Points and signals protecting and route set - then set S55G

 

TEST-3 ~ CLICK Point 18 button Red --- Platform 5

This sets - P18R, P17R, P16G (Route set)

Next it sets signals - S51R, S55R, S65R, S121R

Finally it sets RI's - RI-137R, RI-226R

Points and signals protecting and route set - then set S61G

 

TEST-4 ~ CLICK Point 16 button Red --- Platform 4

This sets - P16R (Route set)

Next it sets signals - S51R, S55R, S61R, S121R,

Finally it sets RI's - RI-137R, RI-226R

Points and signals protecting and route set - then set S65G

 

RESULT...............

ALL items worked as requested. This includes Signals, RI's and Points

Note RI's are currently 2 aspect signals

But EVERYTHING WORKED AS IT SHOULD

 

 

NEXT - I TESTED the same procedures only this time

 

Testing from CLICKING SIGNALS and using Pre-programmed commands in SIGNALS

 

NOTE:  Before starting each test, signals were set to Opposites

 

TEST-1 ~ CLICK S51 to Red and then to Green

Firstly the points are set for the route as we did with programming points

Next it requests to set Signals - S51R, S61R, S65R, S121R

and then the RI's, RI-137R and RI-226R

 

The 3 aspect signals S65 and S121 changed correctly

 

The 2 aspect signals S51, S61 >>> FAILED to change

 

The RI's - 2 aspect signals RI-137R and RI-226R >>> FAILED to change

 

The RESULT was the SAME in EVERY Signal TEST

 

The 2 aspect signals FAILED to change from the pre-program instructions in signals every time.

 

FINALLY - I TESTED  using the same procedure in PROGRAM ROUTE programming,

from the Edit Program icon top of the main RM screen.

 

THE RESULT was the same as programming in POINTS - They all worked correctly.

 

 

CONCLUSION - as the 2 aspect signals work in both Point programming and in Route programming, this cannot be a signal issue. The fault therefore appears to be a bug in the software, and appears to be in the 2 aspect signal programming clusters.

 

Hopefully the above will help HRMS find and fix the bug. As previously stated thank you HRMS, you have cleared many issues with the signals, we are just one step away from concluding these item.

 

We look forward to the fix and as time allows the inclusion of RI/feathers that work with signals and points and also work in programming. (I didn't even mention LD) ;o)

[PJ_model_trains]

@HRMS

 

Another Bug found -  2 Aspect Train-Tech  Signals   Since the above tests I have carried out other tasks and found the same bug in another part of the software. A part of the software I never really use, as I prefer to control my locos from programs with set up commands at the start of a program and then gradually as the loco is moving on its journey towards its destination.  

 

This same bug was found in the Schematic Layout Design Plan, programming Routes. When I prepared a Route for points and signals to change using the Routes method, all the commands worked except those to 2 aspect signals.  

 

Hopefully it will help you find and fix the problem.