4-6-0 train stopping on points and crossover

[David55]

I have a 4-6-0 that stops on one peculiar set up, this is two points followed directly by a crossover. At either side I have a power link and each point is permanently wired.

The train will go over at full speed, but one notch down it stops and

starts up again.

It goes over all the other points with no problem.

Is there a simple solution to this?

Thanks for everyones help.

[Flashbang]

Hi
The real answer is to replace the points and local track work with Electro frog points.
Using Insulated frog points will quite often cause slow speed stalling problems.

However, initially ensure all the wheel treads of the loco are spotlessly

clean. Then clean the point rails including the moving switch blades too.
I recommend you use Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) 99% type applied via a lint free cloth on both wheel treads and the rail tops. Alternatively use a Peco Pl40 powered wheel cleaning set

on the loco and a track rubber on the rails.
Check and clean the inside faces of the points fixed stock rail and the open moving switch rail where they touch together when closed. Clean both sides of the point.
Next, ensure the points are laid flat.

Both along and across the point. I use a 12" steel rule on edge placed along the point rails, then I get down low so as my eye is as near as possible to the rail level. By looking along the rules edge and rail top and then you can see any daylight where the

point isn't flat. Use pieces of card as packing to raise the point as required.

You already have rail power feeds at the points, so this should help considerably.

[Southernman777]

David 55,

Hi. I had this problem with some of my longer steam locos on 'dead frogs' turnouts. It seems the pick up wheels create a short circuit as they go over the crossover and touch the turnout blades at the same time. If you draw it out on paper

you will see what is happening.

The solution, for me, was to change the electrical switching on the offending points (both curved turnouts) so the point blade not being run over is dead. Hence no short can happen as the long steam engines & others pass

by.

This method fully works and stops the problem. On my layout this was an issue only with some turnouts and only with long steam engines. I have long diesel engines and multi units with power pick-ups both ends and it was & is not a problem. Might

be the way long tender engines run?

I hope this helps you.

[Flashbang]

Southernman777 said:
David 55,
Hi. I had this problem with some of my longer steam locos on 'dead frogs' turnouts. It seems the pick up wheels create a short circuit as they go over the crossover and touch the turnout blades at the same time.

If you draw it out on paper you will see what is happening.

Hi
From the initial description given by the OP (David 55) his problem isn't shorting, but stopping and then going off again.
If its a short circuit the console should detect

this and show this up as an error. But there is no mention of this?

However, if it is a short circuit, then your answer re having the open points switch blade isolated is the answer. The open point blade can be made electrically dead when open by fitting

Insulated Rail Joiners onto the point ends Vee rails.

However the real fix is to check and adjust the problem locos wheel Back to Back setting. Which on "OO" should be 14.4mm +/-0.05mm. A B2B gauge is ideal for this and such gauges can be obtained from

all good model shops or direct from The Double O Gauge Association - Buying their 'Universal B2B gauge'. http://www.doubleogauge.com/shop.htm

[walkingthedog]

I have two crossovers (diamond crossings) and some of my loco stutter as they cross them. They have rather a lot of plastic at the crossing points and at some speeds this tends to slightly lift the loco wheels causing them to stop/start. Make sure they

are absolutely flat, add extra trackpins if needed.

[David55]

walkingthedog said:

I have two crossovers (diamond crossings) and some of my loco stutter as they cross them. They have rather a lot of plastic at the crossing points and at some speeds this tends to slightly lift the loco wheels causing

them to stop/start. Make sure they are absolutely flat, add extra trackpins if needed.

[David55]

Thanls for all of your replies.

I have checked the levels and they do need adjusting, some badly.

I will adjust these and purchase a B2B gauge as suggested.

It's not a short, otherwise everything would stop running.

I have always

fancied a class 08, but sent it back for the same problem. Maybe this is why.

[walkingthedog]

Points and especially diamond crossing must be absolutely flat.

[David55]

walkingthedog said:

Points and especially diamond crossing must be absolutely flat.

[David55]

I have levelled the points that were the problem and the train runs over them at shunt speed with no stopping.

I'll now check all the others.

Even my diesels have stopped squeaking.

Never thought i'd find a use for a extension pack

b box

[Southernman777]

Great, have fun.

[Blackbird]

Hi David,
Hornby isolating points have a dead (isolated) position over the plastic frog, but as all locos have multiple pick up wheels they will span the dead spot. I would recommend checking, and cleaning the pickup wipers on the loco also cleaning

the treads on the loco wheels. Also ensuring the track is flat so the all of the wheels are making contact.

[David55]

Blackbird said:

Hi David,
Hornby isolating points have a dead (isolated) position over the plastic frog, but as all locos have multiple pick up wheels they will span the dead spot. I would recommend checking, and cleaning the pickup wipers

on the loco also cleaning the treads on the loco wheels. Also ensuring the track is flat so the all of the wheels are making contact.

[David55]

I've now been through all the points and cleaned the track.

I have looked at cleaning the wheels but dont know how to turn them and where do I find the pick up wipers on the locos. I run class 20, 37, 40, 42, 43, 47,50 and 55 as well as two dmu's.

Will these be in the same place?

[David55]

David55 said:

I've now been through all the points and cleaned the track.

I have looked at cleaning the wheels but dont know how to turn them and where do I find the pick up wipers on the locos. I run class 20, 37, 40, 42, 43, 47,50

and 55 as well as two dmu's. Will these be in the same place?

[David55]

there is a thread on general discussion named 3 questions which asks the same. can we post all replies to this.

Thanks to all

[Doodle009]

Check your back to back wheel distances on your locos. I had this problem and this was what it was,the loco wheels were causing short outs on the points.

Don't replace your track until you've tried this as it is expensive and in a lot of cases unnecessary!

A back to back gauge is only a fiver,the best fiver I ever spent,cured all my loco problems over points.

Andy