DCC points wiring

[papamilks]

I am a new user and I have looked for an answer to my question without success.

I have a hornby R8247 decoder and using it to fit R8243 points motors with a select controller.

I am a little confused about how to wire the points motor. Is the motor wired to the decorder all the time needing to extend each of the wires to the location of my points or do i connect my points at the location to the track with the signal running through the track as per the locos. Sorry to be a bit vacant

 

[96RAF]

For DCC use:

 

The point motor is connected (by 3 wires) to the accessory decoder port using the + C - terminals - one motor to each of the 4 ports. Care has to be taken to wire the correct colour to the correct port as different motors can be wired in different colours and in a different sequence.

 

The accessory decoder is wired using the A-B terminals either direct to the Select Track connections or to the track, which ever is more convenient.

 

Somewhere on the DCC forum the subject of which wire goes where has been discussed in depth and there may even be diagrams.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

The three wires (Red, Green & Black) must not be connected directly to your track. It is wired as RAF says. For complete clarity, I have drawn it out for you below:

.

/media/tinymce_upload/13ab540185ea41095bb54952913e6363.jpg

.

Personally, I favour the direct connection between R8247 and Controller. Less to go wrong.

.

For others reading. If points are PECO brand, then reverse the Black and Green wires shown above. PECO use 'Green' for the Common C wire connection, not Black.

.

PS - Do not over tighten the mounting screws on the R8243 motors. Leave them slightly slack. If the screws are too tight, the point motor (solenoid) is likely to stick and not function correctly. Perfect R8243 point motor alignment is critical too.

.

If extending wires on the R8243 point motor. My preferred method is to twist wires together and solder, insulated with 'heat shrink tubing'. if adverse to soldering. Use 3 way Nylon screw terminal strip (any general purpose electrical store) or use car type crimped 'bullet' connectors or Lucar 'male' & 'female' fully insulated crimp terminals. Whatever method you prefer. Try and match the wires for size and colour to the Hornby originals, or at least size if matching colour is an issue (matching colours means you're less likely to make a wiring mistake).

[96RAF]

Thanks Chris, I knew you would come up with a diagram - great.

 

For anyone using surface mount point motors (the small black ones) just be aware that depending upon which side of which point (left/right hand) you mount them you may experience a foul by low hanging bits of your loco.

 

I have a Class 56 that grounds its fuel tank on the tapered side of the black motor, necessitating a slight application of a rough file to the motor housing For clearance.

 

If however where the point motor is mounted with the non-tapered corner nearest the curve like this then I suggest moving it to the other side of the point, because as the picture shows you cannot file enough of the square corner off to make clearance.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/42c0ec65567490d87520e4dfc62b7a5f.JPG

 

Rob

[papamilks]

Many thanks to you both for all your help

[shaka]

i have heard of a bus wire being used to supply power around a large layout.

is it possible to connect a bus wire to the elite sockets and connect each decoder to the bus wire around my large layout. 

[96RAF]

Yes, even if that bus is used for the track as well as the points.

[Fishmanoz]

Don't forget that before connecting them to track or bus, you need to program their addresses on the programming track.  They all come as 1-4 out of the box.  And best to program them all to other addresses as they can reset themselves from time to time without your knowing it.  Then if you have left one on 1-4, others that have reset will also change when you change the real 1-4.

[Chrissaf]

F.A.O Papamilks,

One other thought has just come to mind whilst answering someone else's question. As you have a Select, you must re-address your R8247(s) to start numbering from DCC Address 61 (or above in blocks of 4, but less than 99).

.

More information is documented on the reply I mentioned above and can be found here:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/attempting-to-set-up-points-decoder/?p=1

[96RAF]

@chris

You could save yourself having to repeat the Peco vs Hornby solenoid wire colours by amending your drawing to show one motor as a Peco unit with appropriate wiring and a note to say watch the difference, but then we are back to square one.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

@Rob. I have sort of covered the PECO wiring colour scenario by the text in italics below the drawing and just above the PS paragraphs at the end.

[Stevejw10]

Chris,

I am new to all this but going DCC route.

Tried connecting up as per your diagram but controller kept flashing 8 time instead of 7

Then tried conecting controller direct as you have suggested but controller has gone dead.

do you think my R8247 could be faulty? is there anyway to check?

I have just got another controller but await your reply or i might just go with  apoint switch which i have tested and works

Look forward to hearing from you 

Ps wiring diagram was just what i was looking for

 

Steve

 

S

[Stevejw10]

Chris

just one other thing, down in Broadstairs in a couple of weeks, do you think Hornby will b able to repair and upgrade by dead select?

 

steve

[Chrissaf]

I have just got another controller.

.

What one? - Brand & Model.

.

do you think my R8247 could be faulty? is there anyway to check?

.

It depends upon what controller you have besides the Select (see my first question above). If the controller you have is capable of writng CVs. Then connecting the R8247 to the controller 'programming' output will allow you to write 8 to CV8. This will factory reset the decoder and make the four ports have DCC addresses 001 for port 1 through to 004 for port 4. Then you can test the operation of the R8247 using these four DCC addresses.

.

Note that your Select controller can not use addresses 001 to 004. For a Select the R8247 DCC addresses MUST be in the range 61 to 99. So you can only test the 001 to 004 addresses if you have a suitable controller that supports those addresses.

.

Your question is unfortunately very vague and lacks clarity. You said:

.

Tried connecting up as per your diagram but controller kept flashing 8 time instead of 7

.

What does this mean?.......what were you trying to do when controller (which controller?) flashed 8 times.

.

I mean no disrespect, but we are not mind readers. All we have to go on is the information you write in your post. If you want some quality assistance you must provide us with some quality information to work from.

.

Tell us what you are trying to do? provide some background info about your layout....what controller are you using...what brand of track and point motors....how many points etc.

.

Are you trying to set up the R8247 for the first time, or is that done and you are trying to operate the points? we can't help you if you don't tell us what the actual issue is.

.

How are you trying to do it? what is your methodology?

.

What is happening and/or not happening as appropriate?

.

...or I might just go with  apoint switch which i have tested and works

.

I do hope that you are not using the DCC track voltage output of your controller to do this. Please advise how you are connecting the manual switch up so that we can confirm the suitability of your manual solution.

.

just one other thing, down in Broadstairs in a couple of weeks, do you think Hornby will be able to repair and upgrade my dead select?

.

You will have to ask Hornby that question. Ring them (Hornby Customer Services) on their published 'Contact Us' call centre number. And discuss directly with them. The Community Moderators (me included) are just normal members of the public and have absolutely no influence or insight over what Hornby might or might not do.

.

TIP: As this is your very first posted question, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

.

See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

.

[Stevejw10]

Chris,

many thanks for your reply yesterday.

To answer your questions:

1) I have purchased a second Select controller

I have just tried this connecting the point and Digital points decoder as per your Diagram (direct power)

The select controller should flash red 7 times on setting 61 but only flashes 2.5 times so i can only presume ther is a fault with the R8247, Initially i was only trying to get 1 point to work but would have added more if it did

Secondly i know the point works as to answer your other question i connected it via a switch and another power source (a HM2000) My system and track is all Hornby and the point (R8014)was new out of the packet

Have contacted Hornby today about my defunct Select and they have given me an adrees in Canterbury to send it too to see if its repairable

Will possibly try to get another R8247 or use a switching system for the points FTB

Many thanks for your help, or if you have any other insights please let me know

 

Steve

[Chrissaf]

Have contacted Hornby today about my defunct Select and they have given me an address in Canterbury to send it too to see if its repairable.

.

The Select you have sent off for repair, may come back with firmware 1.6 loaded. If it does, then the number 16 will be the first number to appear on screen when you power it up.

.

Version 1.6 firmware allows you to write (but not read) to all the CVs. This is something firmware below 1.6 cannot do. If a version 1.6 firmware loaded Select is returned to you, you will then be able to write 8 to CV8 to factory reset your loco and R8247 decoders.

.

The select controller should flash red 7 times on setting 61 but only flashes 2.5 times so I can only presume there is a fault with the R8247.

.

I think you will find that the Select instructions actually say that the LED will flash UP TO seven times. The number of flashes is a variable. Note: the number of flashes relate to the task of configuring and programming the R8247, not operating it.

.

So reading between the lines of your still vague query..... my deduction of your issue is as follows:

.

Correct me if I am wrong.

.

1. You are trying to set up a new R8247 and use it for the very first time.
2. You want (need) to change the factory address of your 'one and only' R8247 to 61 for port 1 through to 64 for port 4.
3. You are unsure whether the re-addressing to 61 - 64 was successful or not (because of the number of LED flashes), as when you try to use the Select to operate the point motor connected to port 1 using DCC address 61, it doesn't work.

.

Is that the essence of your query?

.

If so....

.

I refer you to this previous post of mine that documents 'step by step' how to configure and operate a R8247 using a Select controller. This previous post goes on to describe configuring a second R8247, but you only need to follow the instructions for the first R8247.

.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/select-digital-controller/?p=1

.

You will recognise the drawing in this other post as you have seen it before on page 1 of this currently viewed thread.

.

If the point motor still doesn't work after following the posted instructions above. You must describe the observed symptoms. For example.

.

• Does the point motor twitch at all, as if trying to work.
• Does it work in one direction only, but not the other.
• Is it totally silent and completely unresponsive.

.

[Stevejw10]

Chris

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, just writing to let you know all problems solved.

!) sent old select back to Hornby for repair and got it back yesterday upgraded to 1.6 Only cost £15 including postage, really great service

2) sent back points decoder that wasnt working and got a new one. Points now working perfectly as per your diagram

Now all i have to do is wire it and the other point moters i have to my track + some lighting i have aquired

Many thanks for all your assistance, hope i wont bother you again

PS Hornby nhave sent a new instruction leaflet about update 1.6 let me know if you would like a copy and i can photocopy it here

Steve

[Chrissaf]

Many thanks for all your assistance, hope I wont bother you again

PS Hornby have sent a new instruction leaflet about update 1.6 let me know if you would like a copy and I can photocopy it here.

.

Its no bother.....I wouldn't do what I do on the forum if it was a bother. Glad to hear it is solved.

.

Thank you for the offer of the 1.6 leaflet. I am aware of the leaflet, and although I don't actually have a copy of it currently myself. If I needed one, I could get a copy from Rob(RAF96) one of my ComMod colleagues.

.

However that said. If you were to photocopy it as a JPG image and post it in this thread as an image for the benefit of others, that could be useful.

 

.

[CaNNoN_1981]

Hi all, brand new to the forum and my first post.

If your track configuration has more than 4 points, is it possible to set up more than one R8247 to the select?

[96RAF]

You can have as many accessory decoders as you like as long as the points addresses lie within the allowable range of 61 to 99, so that would be ten accessory decoders worth.

Just remember to only connect them one at a time when addressing them.

[Chrissaf]

The Select can only operate points that have addresses that are in the 61 to 99 range. This is a total of 38 decoder port addresses. Thus the theoretical number of R8247s that can be connected to the Select is 38 divided by 4 which equals 9.5 (10, but with the 10th one only having 2 usable ports).

.

I should stress that this is a mathematical maximum in theory exercise. In reality the Select 1 amp PSU will not have the electrical power to operate locos on the track as well as ten R8247s. I would limit the number of R8247s used with a Select default 1 amp PSU to about 3 max. Although there is no 'hard n fast' rules on this and 3 is just my opinion.

.

More than 3, then I would recommend upgrading the Select 1 amp PSU to the Hornby P9300 4 amp PSU.

.

If you wanted to get anywhere near to the theoretical 10 maximum, then I would power the R8247s via a 4 amp 'Booster' separately from the Select.

.

TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

.

See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

.

[CaNNoN_1981]

Understood, thanks for the update.

So if i wanted to control up to 8 points maximum, hooking up 2 x R8247s to the Select shouldn't be a problem?

Chris, referencing your image on page 1 how would 2 x R8247s hook up to the Select through direct connection?

Many thanks

Russ 

[Chrissaf]

You could use a bog standard electrical Nylon 5 amp terminal strip with screw down termination to provide the parallel wiring connections.

.

Something like this:

/media/tinymce_upload/1ae9e21ac3d0e38d1a1b1ba87b1eb304.jpg

.

This is just an example, there are loads of ways you could achieve the same end result. Soldered tag strips for example, or direct 'wire to wire' soldered joints insulated with 'heat shrink' sleeving.

[CaNNoN_1981]

Hi Chris

So would the below configuration work in eample A or would it need to be example B, excuse my ms paint diagram (looks like a kid has done it lol)

Basically wondering if the Axu port on the select is used to power the R8247s?

(the wago in my examples are basically the same thing as terminal strips)

/media/tinymce_upload/33385bc2ec72bb8dd38186094534e62d.png

[Chrissaf]

Do not wire as per example A on the left. The AUX output is not a DCC output. It is an output which is 15 volts DC.

.

In the context of the Select. AUX means auxiliary analogue accessories such as platform lights and signals etc. Not DCC digital accessories.

.

You need to use the example B drawing on the right.

.

You posted quite a few duplicate posts and slightly different images. I have removed the superfluous ones to keep the thread tidy with at least some clarity. If you post image posts multiple times, they will not appear straight away, but they all get queued up and held back for admin approval. So just post once and be patient and await approval.