Accessory decoders- programming?

[Baz48]

Hi, I am using railmaster with e link and after initial hardware problems ( faulty e link controller, dianosed correctly by RAF (Rob)- Many thanks Rob!.

I am now ready to program my 4 accessory decoders, as I previously had a select controller and all my decoders are wired under the baseboard to the solenoid point "motors" and were programmed via the select, and all worked well! The thing is rather than disconnect ALL the decoders and connect directly to the program ouput of the e link, I have disconnected all the decoder "supply" wires , except the first which I want to program , I plan to connect one at a time to the track supply and disconnect the one that I have just programmed, I have connected the "track supply" wires to the program output, there is nothing on the track, all that is connected is the one decoder that I want to program, I tried this following the railmaster guide, I select the accessory decoder screen , then the type of decoder, in this case a  R8216, but I get the message across the bottom of the decoder screen, "connect ro program output to program decoder", but I have connected the track wires to the program output of the e link, I can't see the difference between this connection or connecting directly to the disconnected decoder, only difference is the 4 outputs are still connected to the point motors? I don't understand why this won't work, any ideas please?

I would welcome any suggestions from RAF (Rob), or Crissaf, or any one else who has any suggestions, Many thanks , BAZ.     

[Chrissaf]

Baz,

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Others have tried exactly what you have tried and failed. They have then disconnected the decoder being programmed from the track and connected it (leaving the decoder in situ) directly via a separate pair of wires to the eLink 'PROG A&B' output and had configuration success......see this previous post linked below. It does seem that having all your track (albeit without any locos or other point decoders on it) still attached to the Accessory Decoder just somehow seems to suck the limited programming power out of the circuit.

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See 3rd post up from the bottom.....last but one sentence in the post.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/19344/?p=2

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The controller programming digital output signal is extremely low in voltage and current (power) and needs to be completely electrically clean with the absolute minimum of resistance in the circuit. The only way to obtain such an extremely low resistance is to have a direct 'point to point' pair of programming wires (preferably twisted pair) as short as possible and not connected via the track for the purpose of programming. The track can also act like an aerial and may possibly be making your low power programming signal output of your eLink too noisy for the decoder to read it correctly.

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You say the decoder is a R8216 and not a R8247. I don't know the details, but I believe the R8216s have limitations and were problematic....see notes below. They are effectively obsolete products now and replaced by the R8247. If I recall correctly, even the Hornby manuals stated that the R8216 should have the components pre-charged for 60 seconds or so before attempting to configure them. Pre-charging involves connecting them to a live controller track output for a minute or so, then (as quickly as you can) transferring them over to the 'Prog' output for the actual act of programming. This would be most efficiently performed by making a special programming harness with a double pole change over switch (switch both legs of the programming wire pair at the same time). The common 'lever' side of the switch would go to the decoder track input connections whilst the 'changeover' switch contacts connect to the Track & Prog outputs of the controller. With the switch in the 'Track' position, the decoder gets pre-charged, then switch the switch to the 'Prog' position to configure it.

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Notes (I believe these were the issues, there may be more than these):

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1. Limitations....doesn't have the 'always on' option offered by the R8247. You cannot read the CVs in the R8216, only write to them.
2. Problems.....kept loosing configurations for no known reason and problematic to configure due to the pre-charging requirement.

[Fishmanoz]

I think Chris has it spot on with the 8216 problems Baz except some early 8247s are actually labeled 8216. Depends on the manufacture date shown.  Hopefully someone will be along soon to remind us what dates this applies to.

[Baz48]

Many thanks Chris, I took your advice and connected the decoder supply terminals directly to the e link program terminals using a couple of my " track bus" heavy duty wires,this didn't work the first time but I then deleted the number 1 (port) in the accessory program screen and reentered the number 1 (port), this seemed to work as when I pressed the "program " button I immediately got the "programming in progress " message, and after this was completed I changed the e link connections from "program" to "track", and the points all fired correctly by pressing the appropriate point buttons on the layout screen, Many thanks !

Could I ask a couple more questions please? ( railmaster seems to  throw up more questions every time I move forward)

1/ I need to change the numbers in some of the point "label boxes"  I can't seem to find any information on how to edit these, and I have tried right clicking on the box etc, but to nothing seems to work.I am sure that there must be a way of editing these point boxes on an existing track schematic?

2/How do I access the "point setting up" screen, the screen is shown and described in the railmaster guide but it doesn't tell you how to access this screen?

Many thanks, Baz.

 

 

[96RAF]

Just confirming what Chris and Fishy said about the R8216 needing to be connected to the Track to charge it up, this is because as Chris says the Programming current hasn't got the oomph to do this, hence the capacitor in the acc decoder saps the programming signal. The recharge current is well over 300 mA for at least 3 seconds and the NMRA standard for Programming is 200mA max and only for when programming is actually taking place, so precious little opportunity there to charge up 2 x 4700 caps.

 

 

The incorrect date label was discussed here https://www.hornby.com/us-en/forum/hornby-r8216-manufacture-date/?p=1/

...i.e. any unit marked less than 50/07 is an R8216. Higher codes are R8247 units regardless of the words on the silver label.

 

To access the points setup, you need to be in Design Mode and call up,your trackplans - click the set square icon - then right click each point in turn and amend as required. Save as usual and restart RM to get the ducks all lined up again.

 

Rob

[Chrissaf]

Baz, the last time I touched RM track design was three years ago, so my memory is a bit sketchy. But I believe this to be the case. The rectangular box with the point number is auto generated from what you configure for the point in the 'Design Screen'. So as such, you cannot directly edit the text in the box (for example you couldn't put letters [words] in it).

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1. Open the track design screen by clicking the 'right angle' drawing aid [set square] icon in the top RM navigation bar (to the left of the 'Help' ? icon in the top navigation bar).
2. Load your particular track plan into the design window.
3. Right clicking the point button icons, causes a dialogue box to open.
4. The number you put in the 'decoder port' drop down box is the number that will be displayed in the rectangular box on the main screen. Remember this is the DCC address of the point and must match the port address you have actually configured into the accessory decoder port connected to that particular point using the Accessory Decoder configuration screen (this decoder configuration screen is only used for Hornby Accessory Decoders). So remember you can't make this number displayed on screen DIFFERENT from the port number DCC address that is actually configured for that point.

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If you want to label your points with a completely customised free hand, then disable the "display point number on screen' option. There is a 'check box' for this somewhere in RM. Just can't quite remember where at this instant in time.

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Then in the track design screen you can add a totally customisable label (using the ABC button on the left hand tool selection column) to anywhere on the screen and make it say whatever you want. So in effect, this custom label replaces the auto generated one.

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PS - I assume then, that you must be using one of the Hornby pre-configured track plans, else you would know how to access the design screen and access the 'right click' menu dialogue box already and wouldn't need to ask 'how to'.

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If this is the case, be aware that you must re-save the track plan with a different file name specific to you. If you don't, and keep it with the Hornby generated default track plan name. Any changes you make will be over-written and the plan restored to the default plan the next time RM is updated.

 

[Baz48]

Thanks Rob, Chris,and Fishmanoz,

Chris you are correct I installed a track plan taken from the hornby track plan book and is in the RM track plan list.

I have read your comments and suggestions carefully and now I think that I understand the programming and labelling process.-

However, Chris, Rob, and Fishmanoz, Perhaps you can explain something to me?

I find it hard to understand how RM knows which actual points I have allocated the programmed decoder to on the track plan, I program the decoder, giving the ports consequtive numbers, the decoder outputs are connected to 4 point "motors", (which I choose for convenience and could be anywhere on the track plan), I don't see how RM knows which particular points I have chosen this decoder to control?  

On my old select controller, you allocate each output port (point) a number and this is the number you input to activate the point, this is very straightforward, but in RM I don't see what "connects" the RM track plan points to any actual decoder/output.- Sorry if I am labouring this point, I hope that you will bare with me, this is very hard to explain in writing but surely the decoder/points could be anywhere on the track plan, how does  RM know which actual points I am programming?     

I will find it easier to use RM and program the decoders etc. if I fully understand the process. and I thank you for your patience, 

Many Thanks , Baz

[Chrissaf]

Baz,

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See drawing for detail.

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 /media/tinymce_upload/dd094f7bc8f83145f0539c81870b0b3b.jpg

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By carefully allocating the port numbers to the points on the track schematic, is how RM knows what address to use and therefore what point to operate when you click the corresponding point button on the track plan.

[Baz48]

Many thanks Chris, This is a brilliant explanation, and must have taken you some time to write, the drawings are excellent and explain everything very clearly,I will have a go later today and I am now very confident!

Many thanks for your patience and the time this must have taken,I am sure that anyone else with similar issues will benefit from reading this thread. 

Again, Many thanks ! Best Regards, Baz.