Surface mounted points advice

[Oggyoggy1]

Hi

I am new to this and would like to know everything that I would need to install surface mounted point motors including how to power them. I have a DCC system and would like to power & operate them seperate from my controller. Could somebody please itemise (an idiots guide) as to what I would need. Thanks Ian

[Chrissaf]

See this web site:

http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical.html#Motor

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The web site above describes in detail many different options for operating points electrically under manual control (that is to say not through the DCC system as you requested).

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Two comments I would make though. The web site shows the use of a CDU (Capacitor Discharge Unit) as an optional feature. Personally, the benefits of using a CDU are so great that I would include one as a mandatory requirement. Secondly, the wiring diagrams show the use of a Hornby R040 point operating switch or the PECO PL26 switch. Given a choice I would choose the PECO switch over the Hornby one (for the reasons given in the web site text). But I would go further than that and not use either of those products as they are very expensive for what they are. I would use bog standard electrical toggle switches that are SPDT (Single Pole Double Throw) with a Centre Off position and are non-locking biased switches. These are universally available through railway model shop outlets and model shop online suppliers and are significantly cheaper than the Hornby / PECO versions. They do however need to be physically mounted in a panel, so some extra installation work including the ability to solder is required.

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Purely an example of the type of toggle switch I am suggesting.....click this link.

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Hornby do not make a CDU, but many forum members recommend this one.

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If you use a CDU, then you can use a much lower current power supply to operate your points. DO NOT use your controller DCC TRACK output to power the CDU or your point motors, it is not designed for that.

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You didn't say what brand of track you are using.

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If Hornby track, the surface mount motor is the R8243

If PECO track, the surface mount motor is the PL11

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These products and how to wire them up is detailed in the first link above I gave you. Note that PECO use the same wire colours as Hornby but differently. Its all explained in the web link pages I gave.

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One key bit of advice I can give based upon the many posts I read on this forum regarding R8243 point motors. Do not overtighten the fixing screws, the fixing screws should be tightened just enough to hold the motor in place...no more. The case of the motor is not particularly rigid and over tightening the screws flexes the case and makes the solenoid slug inside stick, affecting point operation.

[Oggyoggy1]

 Thank you for taking the time for replying to me. I will look through your advice and try and understand your comments. My products are Hornby but use an NCE controller. What type of power supply do I need and do I need something like the Hornby digital decoder?

 

Ian

[96RAF]

If going down the manual switching route then you do not need any DCC kit to operate them, just a suitable AC or DC supply for the CDU, manual switches and the point motors.

 

If you want to use DCC to switch your points - e.g. by way of a computer software operating system like Railmaster or JMRI or Rocrail, etc then you are into a whole new area, which does require accessory decoders and we can expand upon this if necessary, but you did say manual switching in your original question and that is the answer so far.

Rob

[jane1707819582]

hi 

1 off r 8243 point motor 

1 off train-tech   pc2 4 point controller 

connect the point controller to your nce powered track ,wire up the point motor , teach the point controller your point numbers via the accy button on your controller (powercab ?)

no need to worry about a cdu the controller triggers each point you call and waits till the controller has recharghed then operates the second (on cross overs using a nce macro etc , )

hope this helps 

[Chrissaf]

In your original question you wrote, and I quote:

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I have a DCC system and would like to power & operate them separate from my controller.

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I took your question as written. You only need a DCC Accessory Decoder if you want to operate your points via DCC commands using your NCE controller. If you want to operate them separately as you have stated, then NO you do not need a Hornby (or any other brand) digital decoder.

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Regarding power supply......I wrote in my original reply:

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If you use a CDU, then you can use a much lower current power supply to operate your points.

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Point motors require a lot of current to operate robustly, 2 to 4 amps or sometimes more is not untypical. Therefore without a CDU, you will need an expensive high current power supply capable of supplying several amps at a voltage between 16 and 20 volts. The big advantage of using a CDU, is that it stores a large electrical charge in the internal capacitors. It is these charged capacitors that provide a very brief high current (several amps) power kick to operate the point. Once discharged, the capacitors can charge up more slowly from a cheaper supply providing a current as low as 0.5 amps. In the DC Analogue world, the AUX output of a typical DC Analogue Controller would provide a suitable CDU input power source. If your NCE has an AUX output, then that MIGHT be suitable subject to its specifications (I am not familiar with the NCE kit in any detail). There are many separate power supplies that you can use to feed into a CDU, many members on here use 19volt switch mode Laptop power supplies that can be sourced cheaply on eBay.

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If you DO want to operate your points using digital commands from your NCE controller, then ignore everything I wrote in my original reply, plus ignore the additional supplementary information written directly above as it is not relevant. If you want advice on operating the points digitally via the NCE, then ask again here with a clearer statement of requirement.

 

[Oggyoggy1]

 Thank you again. As I stated I am new to this and trying to understand how it all works. Thanks for your patience.

[Chrissaf]

No problem, everybody has to start somewhere, and asking questions here is as good a starting place as any.....

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There are so many different options available and different products in different price bands by different manufacturers. One just cannot give a simple 'one size fits all' answer to what seems on the surface to be a basic question.

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There are solenoid point motors, there are slow action motorised point motors, there are servo based point motors. Your requirement for your solution to be 'surface mounted' does narrow the field somewhat, as many point operating solutions are designed predominantly for under-board mounting.

[Fishmanoz]

Jane, just by way of further explanation to your DCC answer (remembering that isn’t the question asked), as a general rule DCC points decoders for solenoid point motors don’t need, nor can they use, external CDUs as they include CDUs internally in their circuitry.  It is the internal CDU charging time that you refer to.

 

I say general rule because there is one particular decoder on the market that doesn’t. This decoder has caused more problems for forum members than any other, including Hornby’s 8247 which must be running second.  There are many good decoders around.