DCC Select Programming

[helphelp]

Hi, I'm new to Hornby railway layouts. I've jumped straight into digital sets.I've managed to set up new DCC fitted locos on the Select controller. But can somebody tell me how to set up accessories such as points motors and signals such as the Train Tech DS3 Home Distant signal. These Train Tech signals look good to me although they are expensive so does Hornby have any plan to see their own DCC signals?

[jane1707819582]

hi 

the ds3 needs two address , address (1) will control the red /green and address (2) will control the amber 

so clip in the signal to the track , short out the the metal contacts on the side 

pick your address ( the select accesories start at 60 )  say 60  then press the direction arrows on your select ,the  signal should be programmed , 

then call up the address and press the direction buttons and the red green should change 

the second address should be 61 to control the amber 

the traintech point controllers work in a similar fashion wire to the track press the teach button choose your address press direction arrows .job done 

what you pay for imo is the simplicity of the programming method , done and dusted in minutes .

[Chrissaf]

In principle, the TrainTech DS range of signals use the same programming technique.

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First of all decide on an address you want to give the signal. As you have a Select, this needs to be in the 61 to 99 address range [ I would avoid starting at address 60 for the reasons given in the edit at the bottom of the reply ]. For the purpose of this reply, let's assume address 61. Because the DS3 is a triple aspect signal, two addresses are required with the second address being the next one in the range (62). Dual aspect DS signals only have one address that needs to be set and used.

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Fit your DS3 signal to the DCC track as per the enclosed instructions with the signal and the green lamp should light.

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Now touch the two metallic contacts on the signal with a piece of wire or bent paper clip to put the signal into learning mode.

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[based upon 1.5 Select Firmware]

On the Select from the start screen either key in the address or rotate the knob to display the required address (in this example 61). The number displayed will flash. Now press the "Select" key on the Select. The address number (61) will stop flashing to indicate that it has been selected. Now press either the < arrow or the > arrow key.

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This will send a DCC pata packet to the track containing the 61 DCC address. The signal having previously been put in 'listening mode' by touching the two metallic contacts together will read the 61 address from the DCC packet and take that address for its own use. The DS3 will also configure itself at the same time with its auxiliary address (in this case address 62), you don't have to configure this second address manually.

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The DS3 should now be ready for use. Sending either address 61 or 62 from the Select controller will make it operate in different ways depending upon what address is sent and whether the < arrow or > arrow is used. See 'Box 3' in the graphic below.

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Note: to send the 61 or 62 address from the Select controller to operate the signal. You do the same again as previously described when you sent the 61 address to teach the signal the address to configure itself to. That is, use the number keys or rotate the knob to display the flashing address, press Select button to select it. Press the < or > arrow to operate it.

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Basically, what I have described above is all contained in the DS3 instruction sheet (extract below). Note my Yellow highlight, this tells you what combination of address and < > keys give the specific signal colours to switch to. My example used addresses 61 / 62, the DS3 instruction sheet uses 65 / 66 in their example.

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/media/tinymce_upload/2da5f135191d1765dbd5d8f25b4cab14.jpg

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With regard to points, you need an Accessory Decoder to connect to the DCC track. The Hornby Accessory Decoder is the R8247 (4 port) and operates Hornby Solenoid point motors (either the R8014 or R8243). The point motors are then wired to the Accessory Decoder. Other brand Accessory Decoders are available (all the Solenoid supporting types are suitable for the Hornby point motors). The non Hornby brands use a similar 'self learning' mode to the DS3 signal described above, thus the non Hornby Accessory Decoders are very easy to set up. Setting up a R8247 is more onerous.

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EDIT: Personally, I would not start at address 60 for the DS3 if you intend to fit R8247 Accessory Decoders as well. The R8247 needs a specific numbering scheme in blocks of four starting at 61. The Select manual version 1.5 also states a recomendation to start Accessory numbering at 61.

[Chrissaf]

Follow up comment to my first post.

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If you have not yet purchased the DS3 signal, then you might want to consider choosing signals in the Train Tech SS range.

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As you saw in my last reply, the DS signal needs to be manually switched by you the user using the knobs and buttons on the Select. There is no automatic detection of a passing loco to change them. Plus if you have more than one signal they do not communicate with each other to change their lamp status when you manually change the status of another signal in the chain. You will either spend a lot of time, constantly changing signals with the Select, or get bored doing it and leave them stuck in one colour status. DS signals are better controlled from within RailMaster where a certain amount of automation (by linking to other signals and point positions) can be achieved or run under RM program control.

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Note that if you give a DS signal the same address as a point, then you can change the signal when you change the point using a Select controller, but this gets messy with triple aspect signals as you have to leave the Accessory port for the signals second address free. Put in other words, if a DS3 is using DCC addresses 61 and 62 and you have got a four port Accessory Decoder configured as addresses 61, 62, 63 & 64. Then changing the point on port 1 (address 61) will change the signal with the operation of the point, but you need to reserve address 62 for the signal as well, so you can't put a physical point on port 2 (address 62) of the decoder. If you did, then that port 2 point might change when you didn't want it to, or changing the port 2 point might change the signal when you didn't want it to.

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However, the Train Tech SS range of signals have built in intelligence. Firstly, they have train detectors built into the base to detect a passing piece of rolling stock. Secondly, they interconnect by a single communication wire to exchange signal status information. Thus once set up, they can be left to operate completely autonomously without user intervention. They switch to red as the train passes and change through their colour sequence based upon the status of signals further up the line. You still configure SS signals with a DCC address in the same way as the DS signals, but this is just so that you can manually override a signal to red for danger using your DCC controller (Select).

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does Hornby have any plan to see their own DCC signals?

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None are known. It is unlikely too, as HRMS have spent a lot of time, money and energy adding Train Tech signal support natively into the Hornby RailMaster control software. I doubt that they would do that if there were any known plans to develop a competing signal product line within the Hornby brand.

 

[Trackandfield]

Chris.

 

Have printed off the above posts - very helpful indeed. As my 4 R8247 decoders are allocated addresses 61 through 76, common sense says I start to allocate signal addresses from 77 onwards (DS2/DS3L and R) up to the maximum recommended range of 99.

 

Does the signal addressing (with a v1.6 Select) still need performing on the programming track prior to operation as per the loco addressing method.

 

[Chrissaf]

Does the signal addressing (with a v1.6 Select) still need performing on the programming track prior to operation as per the loco addressing method.

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No....the whole point of the Train-Signal inbuilt signal decoders is that they are 'self learning decoders'. All 'self learning' decoders can be programmed on the main track without the need to be electrically isolated from other connected DCC products. This is why the method described in this thread using a Select pre-dates the release of 1.6 firmware by some considerable time. The TT signals can be configured and set up without even knowing what a CV is or does. You would only connect a decoder onto a 'programming' track piece if you want to write directly to a CV (Configuration Variable).

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You can tell when a decoder is 'self learning' or not because when they are, the configuration instructions will document a method by which you put them in 'learning mode'. This might be a switch or a button or in the case of the Train-Tech signals in the previous posts, you touch two metallic contacts. Only the decoder that is set in 'learning mode' will accept (learn) the configuration information, whilst all other decoders that can hear the data..... ignore it, because they have not been put in any form of 'learning mode'.

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Nearly all modern non Hornby brands of Accessory Decoders are now 'self learning' due to the huge convenience of programming advantage it gives. Hornby have not embraced this new technology and are still stuck in a 'dark ages mind set' with regard configuration of 'Accessory Decoders'.

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[Trackandfield]

Sad to report that exercise didn't go to plan. Individually tested my 4 R8247 decoders via a direct pair of wires from Track A/B connections on my Select v1.6 and allocated them 61/65/69 & 73 (all worked)

 

Connected them back to the main track - still all worked.

 

Connected a DS2 signal into a length of main track - signal lit. Touched two wires to the signal and got it flashing - allocated the next logical address of 77 and nothing happened to the signal colour after pressing the left and right keys, BUT previously addressed points operated out of sequence, so back under the board I go this afternoon to readdress the points.

 

Am I missing something obvious ?

[Chrissaf]

You were more than likely following the documented 'How to address a R8247 using a Select' button pressing procedure when trying to address your DS2. You do not use the same procedure for setting up the DS2. All you have done is readdressed all your connected R8247s to DCC address 77 and overwritten them with the addresses 77 to 80. You have not used the 'self learning' method which I explained was completely different to what you are familiar with.

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You use the 'I want to operate my accessory with address 77 procedure' to configure the DS2 which is completely different.

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You will have to first readdress your existing R8247s individually back to their original addresses. Following the Hornby documented method for addressing R8247s.

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The following procedure is copied and pasted from my previous reply above, but edited for your 77 address.

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1. Fit your DS2 signal to the DCC track as per the enclosed instructions with the signal and the green lamp should light.
2. Now touch the two metallic contacts on the signal with a piece of wire or bent paper clip to put the signal into learning mode.
3. On the Select from the start screen either key in the address or rotate the knob to display the required address (in this example 77). The number displayed will flash. Now press the "Select" key on the Select. The address number (77) will stop flashing to indicate that it has been selected. Now press either the < arrow or the > arrow key.
4. To be belt n braces, power down the Select and restart it.
5. Now test the operation of the DS2 signal.

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Just to be crystal clear. The Select doesn't have a separate physical programming track output like some other controllers. The track output of the Select functions as both a track output and a programming output. The only reason for connecting the Select to a 'programming' track piece is so that you don't accidentally program something else in error. Which is what you appear to have done.

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If the Select is connected to the track and you press the Select buttons in the same sequence as a one of the documented Select programming button sequences, then whatever is attached to the track output will try to respond to those programming commands the same as it would if it was connected to a Select separate programming track piece. This does not include the DS2 & DS3 TT signals though. I am just referring to Hornby kit like the R8247.

[Trackandfield]

Much obliged Chris...Working a treat now - well worth the sweat and a few choice words !!!

[96RAF]

Follow this logic.

Question - I have a Select and I have TT DS-range signals - do I need R8247 modules to make them work.

Answer - No.

 

As you say all is now working.

[St1ngr4y]

Just a small addendum to what Chris has said...

 

"Now press either the < arrow or the > arrow key."

 

When it comes to programming the DS2 when it is in "learn" mode, the arrow key which you use on the Select to do this determines which of the arrows will be used in future to switch that signal to green. The unused arrow key will be used to switch that signal to yellow. So if you have a number of signals to program, it would be best to be consistent and use the same arrow key to do the programming.

 

Ray

[Chrissaf]

Just a small addendum to what Chris has said...

"Now press either the < arrow or the > arrow key."

 

When it comes to programming the DS2 when it is in "learn" mode, the arrow key which you use on the Select to do this determines which of the arrows will be used in future to switch that signal to green. The unused arrow key will be used to switch that signal to yellow. So if you have a number of signals to program, it would be best to be consistent and use the same arrow key to do the programming.

 

Ray

 

Ray's TIP above repeated again, as it is also relevant to my supplementary post above this one.

 

PS - The 'Belt n Braces' recommendation at 'Step 4' to power down and restart the Select. Is suggested so that it is the Train-Tech signal that is 'power cycled', more so than the Select.