problem with tts decoder

[rays trains]

On fitting a R8103 TTS decoder into a class 47, which I purchased secondhand which had the decoder removed, it takes off in one direction even with the power off on the control, also if I change direction on the controler it shows a short? the loco runs perfect on dc. is this a decoder fault? or a problem with the loco? the decoder was only recently purchased I have seen on the Hornby dcc page that there as been problems with some decoders, have I got one?????

 

[Rog RJ]

have I got one????

 

Could well be.

[WilliamDavid]

This does not seem to match my issue with the Class 47 decoder.

I have just been talking to Hornby Support, and they don't know of any issues.

They are looking into mine.

[WilliamDavid]

Try setting CV10 to turn off dc running and see what happens.

[2e0dtoeric]

What controller are you using, Shed?

There have been some reports that TTS decoders don't like some controllers! See Admin's post - Hornby TTS Decoders

[Fishmanoz]

Taking off flat out is called DC Runaway and happens when the decoder fails to recognise that a signal is DCC, and thinks therefore it is analogue.  It then runs off at full speed because DCC always has full volts to the track.

 

You can turn off DC Running but WD has his CVs crossed.  It is controlled by bit 2 of CV29 meaning you have to read the value of the CV then write a value 4 less.  So if you find the default value of 6 there, change it to 2.  But if you have the basic Select controller, it can’t do this unfortunately.

 

It could be that the decoder is faulty but it may also be that your track and wheels are not spotless and/or your pickups aren’t tensioned on the wheels properly.  Check out all of this and see if anything changes. Let us know, along with what controller you have.

[rays trains]

Thanks for the replies, I use a select controller to set the addres on the test track, I run my layout with Railmaster Pro Here is the next enquiry, how do you get up the page for CV's ? being 71yr old I know how to use a computor but this has got me? can anyone take me through it, ie get the page up and make adjustments as required without messing up the system.

[Chrissaf]

Put the loco on the 'programming' track piece connected to the 'Prog A&B' output on your eLink (or Elite).

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In RailMaster (RM) open the 'Loco Setting' screen by pressing the 'Loco Setting' icon (highlighted in Yellow in image).

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The 'Loco Setting' screen will open. Assuming that you have already added your loco to your RM loco roster, your loco should be listed in the Yellow highlighted box. Click your loco entry so that it populates the boxes in the Red highlighted area, then click the " i " icon highlighted in Green.

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If you haven't yet added your loco to the RM Loco roster i.e it is not listed in the list highlighted in Yellow, then follow this link below for instructions on how to do that first.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/loco-registration/?p=1

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NOTE: If all you want to do is change the 'Loco Decoder DCC Address' and nothing else, then instead of clicking the " i " icon click the Loco icon to the left of the " i ".

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When you click the " i " icon. The read / write CV screen will open. Set the range of CVs you want to Read in the boxes highlighted in Green, then click the 'Green Tick' in the bottom right. Note that this green tick is the READ CV button and NOT the 'Save Changes' button. In most cases you only really need to set a fairly short read range to read the basic CVs. Say for example from 1 to 40 this will save considerable time compared to reading the full range.

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Amend any CV values in the list that you want to change by clicking the value box, deleting the current entry and then typing the new entry you want. Once you have made the changes you want. Click the 'PEN' icon highlighted in Yellow. This will initiate the writing of the CVs to the loco that is sitting on the programming track. After each CV value is written, the value will be read back to show as the new value in the box in a different colour. If it doesn't read back the value you want then something has gone wrong and you should try again. Once happy that everything is as you want it, then exit the screen using the RED cross in the bottom right.

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You can now re-mount your loco on the main track and test that the CV changes you have made do what you want on the track.

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Note: If when clicking the Green tick to read the range of CVs selected in the range boxes, the CV value fields return a high number of 255 values, then this means that RM cannot see the loco decoder on the program track. This will probably be due to a poor electrical connection between the 'Prog A&B' output on the controller and the Loco decoder. This might be due to poor wire termination on the controller terminals or programming track piece, dirt (oil and grime or dust) on the programming track. Dirt on the loco wheels. Or poor contact on loco pickups. Make sure everything is super clean and shiny and try again.

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[rays trains]

Thank you, that explains it all in terms that I can understand, unlike the pdf files which lost me totally after the first page!!!! I will keep you informed of the outcome.

[rays trains]

OK did everthing that CD listed but still no joy? but the one thing that surprised me is that in the cv list it is showing that the chip version is R8249 4 function, on the box it came in the lable reads R8103 is this correct? and yes everything is clean, 

[rays trains]

Sorry guys just looked up R numbers and that is correct, and yes I do go to Specsavers!!!! ok so I will have another attempt to sort this decoder, 

[Chrissaf]

The mis display of the wrong decoder type for TTS decoders has been covered before on the forum i.e displays R8249 instead of TTS.

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Double click the CV7 box in the CV settings screen for the loco containing the TTS decoder. A selection box opens allowing you to manually select the TTS decoder as the decoder type.

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See this previous post - 6th one up from the bottom by RAF96

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/settings-in-rm-screen-for-getting-cv-list-/?p=1/#post-236607

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It is a new feature as documented in the RM 1.67 release notes - see below:

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[rays trains]

Ok carried out cv settings as per Chrissaf a number of times but still no joy. contacting hornby on Monday

[Chrissaf]

The output silicon on a decoder is configured as an H bridge (Google "H bridge motor control" if you want to know more about H bridges). It might be possible for a faulty component in the bridge to be such, that one direction functions perfectly OK, whilst the other direction is faulty.....in other words the decoder is faulty.

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My earlier reply was just addressing the previous comment about RM displaying R8249 incorrectly. The suggestion about double clicking CV7 was not a suggestion for fixing the directional operation issue discussed in the original post.

[Fishmanoz]

I’ve had exactly that happen on a Mixed Freight loco with the 4-pin version of the 8249.  Started by sometimes not going in reverse and eventually never going in reverse.  Decoder replaced under warranty and problem solved.

[rays trains]

ok had another attempt to write cv's on changing cv 1 primary addres to 6 it reads it then writes then confirms then Confirming Failed, attempted this 2/3 times ? checked wireing connections to programing  track,cleaned track and loco wheels, pick ups ect . in the cv's it has reconised the decoder in cv 7/8 any suggestions ?? OK contacting Hornby on Monday after reading latest replies.

 

[Fishmanoz]

Please don’t write in yellow boxes rails.  Have no idea if you are repeating something you said before or are adding something and, if so, what might be added.  Ask in clear with the green Reply button like this. 

[rays trains]

I don't know how it managed to write in a yellow box, news to me, anyway had anough of straining eyes on the laptop for this week contact hornby!!!!!

[Chrissaf]

Because you used the 'White arrow in the Blue box' button. This is NOT a 'Reply to this post' button OR an 'edit this post' button. It is always best to reply using the 'Reply Text' box provided for replies at the bottom of the page and use the Green 'Reply' button.

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Also note that you have 10 minutes to edit a reply you have just made using the 'Blue Edit Button'. It is not necessary to re-quote your own reply to perform an edit (which obviously you did on the post above). You can extend the 10 minute post edit function indefinitely if you leave the page containing your editable post open in another browser tab. This is how I am able to edit some of my own replies over several hours when needed for a long complicated reply.

[rays trains]

Ok guys, been in contact with Hornby customer help, and yes I have got a faulty decoder, returned today for a softwear update well thats what I said, thank you all for the suggestions, and happy railroading,

[rays trains]

HI again, decoder came back today [ very quick to say only sent it Monday ] but with information stating tested, no fault found, needs to be entered in RM data base? is this not the loco list which shows the loco I am fitting it in or do I have to manually write it in cv7 if it does not pop up for the same loco? I think I am missing something here,

[Fishmanoz]

In your loco setup screen, the decoder must show correctly in CVs 7/8 If RM is to give you access to all of the correct decoder features including sounds.  If it doesn’t, right click on the CV and select it from the drop down list.

[Chrissaf]

Railshed, your original question in this topic thread related to "taking off in one direction" and "showing a short on the controller in other direction".

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Is this still your primary issue?

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If it is, it seems strange that Hornby returned your decoder as 'no fault found'. Did you specifically state in your return covering letter that your controller showed a short in one direction. They may have only tested the decoder in the working no fault direction.

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Or has your issue morphed into "How do I display the correct function button settings of the TTS decoder for my Class 47 loco in RailMaster?"

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If this revised question more accurately represents your current situation (i.e. your last question above), then you have a couple of options open to you.

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Option 1) - In the RM 'Loco Settings' screen. Load up your Class 47 loco via its R number (NOT the R8103 number of the TTS decoder). None of your posts actually state what your Class 47 loco R number is. Then manually enter in all the 'Function Button' information into the loco 'Settings' screen. The 'Function Button' information is shown on the product page for the R8103, I would also assume that a printed version is included with the decoder packaging. Remember if typing in the Function Buttons manually, any function that needs to toggle (lock) on and off, needs to have the text "on/off" on the button label without the " " quotation marks.

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Note: RailMaster will not know that you have fitted an after market TTS decoder to your Class 47, so the Class 47 loco for your loco R number in the RM database will not have any TTS function button data associated with it.

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Option 2) - In the RM 'Loco Settings' screen. Load up the Class 47 factory fitted TTS loco using R3393TTS. This should populate all the 'Function Buttons' with the correct entries as I would expect that the R3393TTS loco uses the same R8103TTS decoder. Then you can edit the R3393TTS number to display the correct R number for your loco, and edit the loco image to display your particular loco (if you have a suitable image to load as a replacement).

[rays trains]

Hi, the loco is a R3287 TTS  which in RM ' loco settings' came up with the correct loco with all the function buttons populated, I will check cv 7/8 for the correct decoder, I do have another class 47 R3393 TTS which is no problem, this is why I could not understand why R3287 is giving me a problem, if on still no joy with cv 7/8 I will try option 2 ,   

HAPPY DAY's

[Fishmanoz]

Given entering the correct loco with the correct R number gives you all of the correct sound functions, the decoder must be correct and Option 2 is most unlikely to get you anywhere.