RailMaster upgrade fails ( 1.44 CD version to current 1.65 )

[dragoncity]

I recently purchased a 'Western Master' Set with e-link as I was interested in the computer control aspect of the set.

However it has been a very painful experience trying to get the set to install ! 

(Windows 8.1, elink  )

NOTE: I realise the supplied CD will have old version of RailMaster ( ver 1.44 ) & the online version refered to for download on this site is 1.65.

Still, I installed the CD and it 'sort of' works, but I came across the much refered to eLink Driver install problems,

after a few tries MicroSoft Driver install decided that indeed it DID have a driver to install. ( Typical MS :-),

the eLink now appears as COM4, and "this device is working" set by MS. Even so I sometimes get the "No DCC device connected" error message , even tho it obviously is.

I feel that Hornby should have a current driver available for direct loading rather than hoping MS will supply it.

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Restarting the install from the CD I did indeed get a RM screen to appear, attempted the Activation Proces and this resulted in a locked up system ! -- Mmmm not good.

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So I re-installed off the CD  AGAIN! , but this time ignored the Activation process and after installation complete, RM asked if I'd like to update the system -- OK, download to lastest version ( I suppose) only to find 

1) the install process dumps 4-5 extra icons on the desktop , even tho I had clicked them OFF -- installer not very clever I'm afraid.

2) the RM program fails to run -- after setting 'run as admin' -- a MS wait icon appears, then NOTHING -- no errors, no info just nothing.

Same thing applies to the version downloaded direct from www.powerpos.com, looks like a complete install

but does not execute.

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Re-install of CD AGAIN !  At least this version tries to work, allowing me to set appropriate COM4 parameters.

BUT even there I get DIFFERENT choices for various drop down menu items !! How can that be off the CD ??

ie: sometimes the Western Master track layout option appears, sometimes not ???

also sometimes the dialog boxes are blacked out, not white, but there are actually values there to select ??

( BTW reinstall often reqiures a reboot of Windows to get over "Railmaster file being accessed by another program" error  even tho the program is NOT runnng.

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A general comment : RailMaster appears to be a quite old program that has not kept up to date with modern

Gui screen interfacing -- it looks like a DOS program and feels like a DOS program that just does not interface

with MS Windows current versions ?? Pretty Poor Really .

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I'm working my way thru various help postings, but even there, there seems to  be conflicting information, especially about the startup sequence, some say plug in and power on the eLink then the computer others say power on the PC then the eLink, other say plug in the eLink USB cable after start up complete, other say plug in before power on , etc ---- what a mess :-)

I hope it woks eventually :-)

 

 

[Nick_]

Do not install from the CD. Download the latest version from the website and install from that instead. You only need the activation number from the CD. 

[96RAF]

Dragon

It pays to read the stickies at the top of this topic BEFORE installing RM as we see the same mistakes being made every time with people getting into a muddle and the fixes are the same every time. 

 

The analogy with installing the CD version, then the screen notified updates is why would you do the equivalent of installing early Windows then going through the pain of having to apply updates to get you to today‘s Windows. Many products advise to get the latest software from the OEM website and that is what the page top link does here. The forum advice posted time after time is download the latest version of RM and apply the key code from the CD box.

 

Having got yourself into the current state of affairs it will still pay to go through the stickies you say you are reading and follow the advice given. Just in case anything has been missed or not set up per the guides.

 

As to the varying startup sequences, these are users recommendations as to what works for them, which they wisely stick to. It is probably driven by start up delays on their particular devices. Mine is driven by how my train room is wired and habit of switching things on by way of remote control for convenience due to where my sockets are located behind stuff in the room.

 

Rob

[dragoncity]

"The forum advice posted time after time is download the latest version of RM and apply the key code from the CD box."

I have done that a number of times -- it always goes through the install process BUT then will NOT execute, yes, even with "Admin on"  as I mentioned in my posting. The latest version ( 1.65 ? ) just will not function under my Windows 8.1 .

 

I take the point about installing 'old' s/w then upgrading -- I would never do that with Windows itself, I dont have enough years left  😆, but considering 1.44 does execute, albeit badly, its the simplest way to get something "working".

BTW: I have also included the RailMaster.INI fix,

Alternative comms=1

Check controller=1

just in case that helps.

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Thanks for your interest,

Brett

[Chrissaf]

Based upon similar issues reported by other members, your issues probably stem from installing this ancient 1.44 version first from the CD. RM is hardly the same application now as it was in that old version. The old version really needs to be eradicated and purged from your system first IMHO.

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If you have used the CD key to successfully Activate RailMaster regardless of RM version installed, then the key needs to be 'Deactivated' first, before uninstalling the RM application. Page 131 of the current RM manual tells you how.

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If you have yet to activate the RM installation or have deactivated it as above, then do a FULL uninstall using the uninstall wizard in 'Control Panel - Program & Features' then using Windows Explorer go into the 'Programs (X86)' folder and manually delete any folders and files still belonging to RM that might have got left behind.

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As an experienced Windows user, I personally would follow that up with using 'regedit' to search for and remove any specific RailMaster references in the registry too. But as a novice, I do not suggest you do that as the risk of serious Windows damage is too high. But if you have used 'regedit' before and feel confident then use it. Create a 'System Restore' point first, so you can go back if something goes wrong and you trash Windows with your registry editing. The idea being to get your PC as near as possible back to a pre-RailMaster installation state.

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Or instead. If you are confident using 'Windows Restore' and have a 'Restore' point saved that pre-dates your original RM installation attempt, then I would restore Windows back to a time before it all got mucked up.

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Now to start the installation again. Download the 1.68 RM version from the forum link. But DO NOT run it yet.

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You must install the eLink driver first. This I think you have done so already from what you have written in your post. To make sure, plug in the eLink and power it up. And leave it plugged in and powered for the rest of the actions described below. Go into 'Control Panel Device Manager' and look at the "Ports (COM & LPT)" branch of the tree. Does it say "USB Serial Port (COM4)" or (COM3), if it does move onto the next stage detailed further below.

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If the 'Device Manager' entry says "R8214 Hornby Elite (COMx)" with x = 3 or 4, then this is not the correct driver for Windows 8 and could very well be the crux of the issues you are experiencing i.e RM is not opening because it is trying to access the wrong eLink driver for Windows 8. Note that the R8214 Hornby Elite driver is for Windows XP/Vista and is the same for both the Elite and the eLink. Also, if the Device Manager entry says "CDC RS232 Emulation", then again the driver is not correctly installed yet. Refer to my driver installation link provided below. If the incorrect "R8214 Hornby Elite" driver is installed, then this will need to be completely uninstalled including the deletion of the associated .SYS driver file reported by Device Manager as being the one used, before installing the correct driver.

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However, if you do use 'System Restore' to revert back to an earlier time, then the eLink driver will probably go too. Great if it does, then you can re-install it again afresh using the instructions in this previous post.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/windows-10-drivers-for-hornby-elite/?p=1

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Note this post was written for Windows 10, but W8 is the same process.

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Make sure the right driver is correctly installed as detailed above and the eLink powered up and connected before moving on to the next stage below.

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NEXT STAGE

Now you can try installing RM again. RIGHT CLICK the downloaded RM 1.68 Installer file and choose the 'Run as administrator' option. Allow all default options to be selected. Yes this will put multiple icons on your desktop, don't worry about that, those can be dealt with later, they are just shortcuts to the various RM documentation PDFs plus the main run RM icon.

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If any pop-up messages appear during the RM installation process relating to security that give an 'Allow' or 'Decline' option. Then be sure to choose the 'Allow' option. If it asks you to input the CD Key, choose the 'do it later option' so that RM installs as the 'Evaluation Copy' version.

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Assuming that RM 1.68 now installs and runs. Open the RM 'Help' screen and click the bluish COG icon in the bottom left and follow on screen prompts to open the 'railmaster.ini' file editor.

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Look for and delete these two entries.

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Alternative comms=n where n = a 0 or a 1

Check controller=n where n = a 0 or a 1

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If they are not currently present, then great.

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Now type the two lines (again) as the very last lines at the bottom of the file.

Alternative comms=1

Check controller=1

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Save changes and exit the editor, close and reopen RM.

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Open Windows 'Control Panel - Device Manager' and make a mental note of what COM port the eLink driver has been allocated this should be  either COM3 or COM4. Now open the RM 'System Settings' screen and ensure the eLink is selected as 'Controller A' and that the same COM port number that was shown in Device Manager is also selected in this screen.

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TIP. Do not keep changing what USB port you plug the eLink into. Keep using the same one. If you lose total RM communication with your eLink then check this COM port setting, it has probably changed in 'Device Manager' and needs to be reset in RM. Also, if at all possible use a USB2.0 port and not a USB3.0 port. The eLink is not a happy bunny using USB3.0.

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Do some testing to make sure that RM and your eLink are working. If happy, you can now input your CD Key (off hand I can't quite remember what screen you enter the CD Key in, but I think it is in the 'Help' screen). If you are really lucky this 'Activation' process will work first time. But as you are trying to recover from a previous corrupted installation, this is likely to fail. If it does, come back here and tell us, and wait for further advice.

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TIP. Write down and keep safe all the data you entered in the Activation screen, such as name, email adress, postal address etc. If you ever need to request your key to be reset on the HRMS servers you will need this information and it must match the data originally entered.

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As others have said, the two sticky posts at the top of the RailMaster forum give lots of newbie setting up advice. I have just taken the key parts of that previously posted advice and embellished them with more detail in this reply.

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EDIT: I was writing this post whilst you posted your last reply. Hence the slight overlap in written content.

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My original installation of RM (1.5x) was on a Windows 8.0 (pre Windows 8.1 upgrade) machine and it worked fine. The Windows 8.0 was subsequently upgraded to 8.1 then again to 10 during which time RM upgraded from 1.5 to the current 1.6x versions. In my case, every version combination has worked fine with no issues.

[Fishmanoz]

Brett, I must beg to differ with you about the simplest way to get RM working after a fashion is to install from the CD.  It really is simpler to install by downloading from the link because, for a start, it really does work.

 

Personally, I’m not convinced Chris’s very conservative approach will be necessary but it will certainly work as he describes.  I would start by just checking the driver is correct as he describes, download and install from the link, then double check the ini file.  

 

One slight improvement on that would be to rename your existing ini file to something else, power up your eLink with the correct driver, then install from the link.  This will then make a new ini file for you that is correctly configured for your setup. 

 

PS.  And you could start by throwing the CD in the bin where it belongs. 

[Augustus Caesar]

Aaahhh Fishy...

 

Advice to throw said CD in bin as we have discussed prior to this thread is not a good idea.

A user, if you remember, couldn't install the latest update from the site, used the CD and then was able to install the updated version on top of that.

Different machines will have different configurations and for whatever reason will, just on an odd occasion, want to be awkward and not install from the site download.

 

@dragoncity...

Keep the CD in a drawer because you never know.

 

Another good idea, of course, is to keep each downloaded version in a folder so any one of them can be tested or used to get RM working when a new version decides to have a day off or just 'can't be bovvered'.

[96RAF]

I have a large box full of CD cases retained on the JIC basis, but recently I did a quick survey which showed that a vast percentage of them would not load on a Win 10 PC as they were designed for clockwork windows.

 

Annoying as some of them are really good programs, including one containing hundreds of engineering apps designed for a Win 98 PC that I cannot now use. Another is the 1960s Grand Prix a great game, now defunct.

 

Looks like a trip to the charity shop.

Rob

[dragoncity]

Thank you Chrissaf for your very comprehensive instructions , I had also come to the conclusion that a complete restart of the install process was required -- AFTER a Windows clean out !!

Following instructions very carefully : ( BTW: I am the only user of this system AND have Admin Powers )

1) removed any RM files via the Control Panel remove software option.2) entered directory 'Programs (X86)..' and deleted the folder 'RailMaster'3) had a look at regedit ( which I have not used for many years past -- since Win 3.11 !! ), did not find any RailMaster references , so left the file as is.

4) deleted and reinstalled 'USB Serial Port ( COM4)' -- took two goes, but Windows is happy that the conection is working. -- left the eLink connected & powered ON.

5) I downloaded a copy of RM 1.68 via the Forum link.

6) Set .exe to 'Run as Admin', executed .exe, went through the install process without complaints.

7) bunch of short cut icons appear on desktop :-)

8) checked the Railmaster.ini file , the two refered commands were 3rd & 2nd last , deleted them and reentered as 2nd last & last entries, saved file. ( With difficulty as I was rejected as being unable to update file! , turns out its read only -- WHAT THE !?!

9) attempt execution of 'RailMaster' icon ( run as admin ) -- started with the small dialog about allowing changes, ok, disappears, Windows blue 'wait/busy' circle appears -- THEN NOTHING !!!

========================BTW: I am not really a current Windows user as I left the Windows 'fold' many years ago to work wth IBM OS/2, Unix and now Linux & BSD system. I had always found windows software installations fraught with problems and variou conflicts -- seems nothing has changed :-). My railmaster install is onto a Windows only laptop I use for Astronomy and it has spare capacity.

=========================NOT Your Problem, BUT it would be very nice if someone told the RM software people to take the trouble to attach version numbers to every release and not call them ALL "rm-setup.exe" -- extremely lazy release technique indeed. I notice you do that on the forum link, but the file is still: "rm-setup.exe"

Also if you had not mentioned the download link "in the Forum above" , I would have ended up downloading the version from www.powerpos.com,which is where the Hornby site directs one to, which was NOT the same size and therefore not the same as "yours". They did change the file somewhat later  :-) If you had not mentioned that file size I would not have known if I'd loaded the latest version.

[Chrissaf]

DragonC

One more thing you can try. Other members who have reported issues similar to yours, were able to install an earlier version, but later than the one on the CD. Then once the earlier more recent version was installed, the auto-update kicked in to then update to 1.68.

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Now as well as abysmal version control for which I am in total agreement with you on. HRMS (the RM developers) do not offer historic downloads of previous versions.

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So I have uploaded a known stable version of Railmaster version 166 revision 1 onto my BT cloud service for you to download. It is in a ZIP because the 'cloud service' won't allow native .EXE files on it.

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Clicking the link below should open a page with the ZIP file name in the top left corner, then clicking the file name should give you the download option dialogue box.

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I have tested the link below and it worked at the time of posting (let me know when you have downloaded a copy, then I can delete the ZIP file in the Cloud).

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https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/P2dMAtokuL

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Before trying to install this 1.66 version. After removing again any current remnants of RM from your Win 8x system. Go into Windows 'Control Panel - Firewall' and remove any railmaster exception that you find. So that the 1.66 install renews the Firewall exception again. A previous recent poster who was trying to install from an even earlier version 1.22 CD had similar RM won't run issues and deleting the Firewall exception (the one that had originally been set by the CD install attempt) and putting in a new exception using the later "railmaster.exe" file got his system working.

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From reading your posts, it sounds like you will be familiar with configuring (and deleting) exceptions in the Windows Firewall, but if not then this previous post of mine might help.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/elink-program-track/?p=2/#post-154731

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After the install attempt of 1.66, do check the Firewall again to confirm that the exception has been updated, and add it manually if not present. RM does an Internet check during start up, now the lack of Internet shouldn't normally prevent RM starting, it just greys out the Internet icon in the top right hand corner. But having a Firewall exception that is based on the old obsolete CD version of the RailMaster program does seem to have an adverse effect.

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I am fairly confident that once the original CD installation set the RailMaster exception in the Firewall, that later installation attempts will not update it. Plus the exception remains in place after you uninstall RM using the 'Control Panel'. The PC I am writing this reply on, has this exception in my Firewall, but does not have a copy of RM on it. I did load it on once just to access the manuals and uninstalled thereafter, but the FW exception is still present.

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Good Luck !

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If still no joy, HRMS can if you request it, log on to your PC and do the install for you. Basically they give you a link to a small 'remote access' app to download and install. A bit like "PC Anywhere" they can then take control of your screen and keyboard whilst you observe what they are doing.

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HRMS support@rail-master.com

[dragoncity]

Thanks Chris, have downloaded and unpacked the 166 .zip into an .exe.

Will transfer to the windows machine and see how we go.  😀

Heres hoping !!

 

Seems I have to wait until late tomorrow to inform you of the results -- reached the 2 post per day limit .

cheers,

Brett

[Chrissaf]

Brett, I have done several edits to my post since your reply above. Please do review the changes (hopefully before running the 1.66 installer) for the updated instructions. Bumping this thread to bring the changes to your attention.

[Fishmanoz]

Brett, just on editing your ini file, did you do so outside RM or use the blue cog in the bottom left of the Help window to do so.  The cog is there to avoid the read only problem with doing it externally where it is necessary to make a copy outside the RM folder, edit that and copy the file back.

 

AC, yes I remember about the previous CD exception but if following my instructions, Brett had already loaded from the CD Before overwriting from the link.  But point taken. 

 

PS.  Just a note on moving my licensed copy of RM yesterday from a dying laptop to my current one (all went without a hitch deactivating and reactivating incl ProPack) without connecting my Elite or installing its driver but specifying Elite during installation, the default ini file has one line below the critical comms etc lines selecting zero for foreign locos just as Brett noted. Would be good if HRMS changed this order to put the critical lines at the bottom in the first place. 

[dragoncity]

Hello Chris, ( and Fishmanoz & RAF96 & AugustusCaesar :-),Stripping everything out of Windows ( Again !) , I installed 1.66 as supplied by Chris and guesswhat ? -- NOTHING.

I also tried to run from a Console , its a old 'trick' under Linux, as any messages are posted there rather thanthe ether , but no messages appear. The run just switches to a window, does the Win blue 'wait' then dies, reverts to consolewhich showed no messages.

The reference to setting Firewall 'pass' for RailMaster is intersting, the 1.44 install did indeed set a Railmaster Firewallentry, which I removed, and version 1.66 did not install a Firewall entry. So I entered one.

Did not help.

=========

I was mulling over what other dagg ends the RM install process has left around Windows ? , and therefore stuffing up later install efforts.

Its possible that the original 1.44 install, which failed to activate, has maybe 1/2 set stuff back at Hornby's ranch which is stopping subsequent efforts to install any version.?

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I'll try to get direct help from Hornby as Chris suggested -- I'll keep you updated -- thanks for all your efforts , much appreciated

Brett

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BTW: NEVER toss out old program CD -- you never know. There are emulators that often can run old program & games its worth scoutingthe internet. Under Linux systems there is a program called WINE which runs hundreds of Windows program as if they are native to Linux. Ive been running a excellent CAD program that way for years.

( You could dual install a Linux with Windows -- Most Win users choke on their Weaties at that suggeston :-)

[96RAF]

Dragon

There could well be a hidden watcher as I seem to remember app demo versions with a 90 day timeout and it nags after that for you to buy it. Even if uninstalled and reinstalled the watcher is still there - computer says no. 

Rob

[Chrissaf]

Brett, when you contact HRMS and ask for their log on remotely assistance, reference this thread to them. They do read the RailMaster posts. I should think seeing all this backgound info will help them immensely to resolve your issue.

[Chrissaf]

Oh and I have just remembered. RM generates a text "log" file located in the program folder. Open this in notepad or equivalent, it may give a clue to what RM is trying to do when it gets to the point where it fails during the start up processes.

[Fishmanoz]

Will even be useful if all that is in the file is Rob’s last line. 

[Augustus Caesar]

@Brett

 

Just an observation really...

 

When installing RM (any version) and a Firewall entry is made it won't make any difference by removing it and attempting to recreate it using a different version of RM.

Once the entry to a Firewalll is made that is it... no need to interfere unless you want to absolutely specify very specific settings for that entry by editing.

So don't worry about different versions creating different entries... not going to happen.

You may already know that but just in case you don't or anyone else thiks this is the case I thought I should clarify.

[dragoncity]

When is a LOG not a LOG ?? When  you RESTART it every time your program tries to execute. !!!

Last log entry on icon clicking :

26/02/18 15:18:10 RAILMASTER STARTED 1.66 (Revision: 0)26/02/18 15:18:10 Program already running so aborted

Two thngs are interesting here,

1) I'd tried ot start RM at 15:15 , and that log entry is GONE !! ( restart LOG !! ),

also I check what programs Windows thinks it is still running before another icon click, and RM is NOT one of them, can only conclude:

That RM has its own " I'm running" flag/semaphore which is not being reset upon close down, still thinks it running.

===========

LOG files should be ADDED too and only restarted if/when lots of entries make them a bit large, say 500 lines or so. Good LOG  file systems set up a circular "never ending" file for LOG data, I doubt RM programmers have heard of them.

Just another gripe about RM's programmers abilitys on top of the non-serial numbering system 😆,

[Chrissaf]

When installing RM (any version) and a Firewall entry is made it won't make any difference by removing it and attempting to recreate it using a different version of RM.

Once the entry to a Firewalll is made that is it... no need to interfere unless you want to absolutely specify very specific settings for that entry by editing.

So don't worry about different versions creating different entries... not going to happen.

You may already know that but just in case you don't or anyone else thiks this is the case I thought I should clarify.

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Then how do you account for this AC, where RMRED removed the Firewall RM entry and found it again to re-enter under a DIFFERENT name. Which then fixed his issue.

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Extract below taken from this thread, that also related to an install from a very early CD version of RM.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/rm-activation-issue-under-xp/?p=1

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/media/tinymce_upload/ebae7c9074ac403808d7814bbf899db4.jpg

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[Chrissaf]

DragonC,

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I get the distinct impression that you are an experienced Windows user. So given that RM thinks that it is running already, I would be initially looking in 'Task Manager' Processes Tab to see if there are any entries there that could be remotely associated with RM and shut them down to see if RM now starts. If you find a process that is causing the problem, then it should be a fairly easy task to find the 'Registry' entry that is calling it during Windows 'Start Up'.

[dragoncity]

Chris, had a scout around with Task Manager and could not find any RM related tasks, however there was a

phantom Icon for RailMaster listed -- ie: did not display on desktop, deleted it reference.

 

Did a total reinstall of 1.66, still not working 😀, RM did NOT appear in Firewall entries.

 

BTW: I do know Windows somewhat , pretty much shoved it into the deepest corners of my mind , but it keeps coming back like a bad smell !! I get annoyed at all the gotch ya's MS put in the way of getting stuff done.

BTW2: I have found that RM also holds onto the COM4 like a leach, and locks out  any other program from getting access, even if RM has not actually started ! ( Not nice )

[Fishmanoz]

RM holds onto comm 4?  How do you figure that?

 

Given you can’t find RM running, even if it thinks it is, you won’t be able to email HRMS from within the RM Help window, you’ll have to use support@rail-master.com. You could attach the log file when you do so as well as referencing this thread. Definitely seems like you’ll need them to log in to fix this one. Keep watching while they are in there and let us know what the solution was. 

 

PS.  Little point my hanging onto CDs and DVDs now, no drive for them in the house apart from the BluRay player attached to the TV. 

[dragoncity]

RM holds onto comm 4?  How do you figure that? 

Given you can’t find RM running, even if it thinks it is, you won’t be able to email HRMS from within the RM Help window, you’ll have to use support@rail-master.com. You could attach the log file when you do so as well as referencing this thread. Definitely seems like you’ll need them to log in to fix this one. Keep watching while they are in there and let us know what the solution was. 

 

PS.  Little point my hanging onto CDs and DVDs now, no drive for them in the house apart from the BluRay player attached to the TV. 

       1)   You run another ( not RailMaster ) program which is configured to use Com4 , I tested with

JRMI -- which complained that "COM4 is being locked by another program", seeing Railmaster is the

only other program I think is trying to use COM4 -- its a pretty good guess.

 

2) I have sent support a email , last Sunday my time, not heard back as yet ( Tuesday )

 

BTW: I now find that when I either Restart or Close Down Windows 8.1, I now get a screen informing me that

'these' programs are still active and are stopping the operation -- A small quiz , which program is the ONLY

one in the displayed list of programs -- YES! RAILMASTER !!!  Which is interesting as RM has been removed

from the system -- or so I thought.

BTW2 : JRMI is sort of interesting , and installed and runs without apparent problems, however e-link is not listed as a DCC device it can handle -- which brings up the question , are e-link & elite DCC controllers compatible ??