Loksound in A1 with RM, Help needed.

[Chrissaf]

Hi Percy,

I would start with downloading the manual for the Loksound decoder which you can find here:-

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/news/read-news-entry/browse/7/article/loksound-v40-manual-online/3/

 

There is a section in the manual which tells you which CVs to alter to synchronise the chuff rate to movement of the driving wheels. It's a little complicated, but once established it works well.

 

If the sound isn't realistic, then there are establishments where you could send the loco to have new sound blown onto the decoder for a reasonable price. One I have used a lot in the past is Olivia's Trains of Sheffield.

 

Ray

[Chrissaf]

.......and how do I change the F functions to work correctly for the Loksound sounds?

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Since it is a Bachmann with a Loksound decoder it will not be in the Hornby RM database. Six of my locos are Bachmann with Loksound decoders and it takes me about 5 to 10 minutes to configure (add) a new loco purchase in RM.......the practice I have had doing this for myself has got the process down to a fine art....it is not difficult.

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Reading CV7 & CV8 in RM will tell you if it is a V35 or V4 Loksound decoder. To read CV7 & CV8 it is better to use RM to read a restricted range, say for example tell RM to read CV1 to CV30 and that will cover all the basics and should also provide an accurate read-out of CV7 & CV8 (note that you cannot read CV8 directly, it only works if you use the 'read a range' method I have just described). Of course, it goes without saying that the loco needs to be on the 'programming track' to read the CVs.

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'Read Range' entry boxes shown highlighted in yellow:

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The following previous post of mine will give you a rough idea of what is involved in manually adding a loco that is not in the Hornby RM database. This particular previous post is for a Hornby loco, but the described methodology in the post is just as appropriate for a Bachmann.

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/r3459tts-decoder-not-recognized-23469/

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If you have already added the Bachmann loco to RM and it is only editing the F buttons that has got you stumped, then try this previous post of mine instead:

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https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/how-to-set-up-default-sound-functions-on-scotsman-r3284tts/?p=1

Third and fourth post UP from the bottom of the page.

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The main thing to remember that if you want a Function to 'Lock on' such as Sound and Lights for example. You MUST include "on/off" (without the " " quotation marks) on the button label. There is also a limit as to how many characters can be displayed so use abbreviations to keep button labels short.

 

[96RAF]

Once you find out which version it is then make sure you get a suitable replacement speaker if you are going to change it as the impedence is different for each version 8 or 100 ohms.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

i recently bought a 2nd hand b**chmann A1 (32-553) North British 60161, which came with a loksound decoder fitted by the previous owner. unfortunately he didn't leave any paperwork for the decoder in the box! i checked the instructions and this loco was definetely not factory fitted with sound, it was 8PIN DCC ready.

the loco runs fine on DC both ways. i read the CV's to find it was set to ID. no. 03, and it would happily read CV's on the program track, but it would not run on DCC at all and wouldn't make any sounds until i did a decoder reset (set CV8 to 8), then it runs fine with or without sound on DCC.

this is my first non-hornby TTS sound decoder, i have alot of TTS loco's and am pretty happy with them. but first impressions of the losound in comparison is not good to be honest, maybe i need to get it re-blown or muck about with the CV settings? the chuff sounds naff compared to the hornby TTS, and here's me expecting the earth after hearing countless people telling me how TTS is cheap tat, yada yada, and how all the expensive brands are so superior!

the first thing i will do is upgrade the speaker, although some of the sounds on it sound much better than the standard rubbish chuffer. its had the tender drilled, so the sound does escape.

if the previous owner had had it blown with a decent quality LNER 3-cyl. chuff, have i deleted it by doing the factory reset?

how do i find out if its v3.5 or v4?

whats the best volume settings to use? (i like LOUD, and am a bit deaf!) and will i blow the speaker?

whats the best loco to install it as in RM? and how do i change the F functions to work correctly for the Loksound sounds?

Luckily its running ok at slow and fast speeds on DCC and DC, and its a good solid loco, its just the sound i am dissappointed with! it sounds more like one of those cheapo steam sounders, even my old 1980 mainline PP3-powered Royal Scot chuffer sounds better!

my only critisism of hornby TTS is that the LNER 3-cyl decoders sound a bit odd/fake, and they only have 3-4 chuff-speeds, most of which are slightly lower quality than on other hornby TTS loco's. Unfortunately the majority of my collection are LNER 3-cyl loco's so i am seriously on the lookout for a decent sound setup for my favourite gresley/peppercorn top-shed fleet!

 

p.s. i am using RM 1.68 (latest version) on windows 7 laptop 32 bit, with E-link.

 

[96RAF]

Although specific Bachmann sound locos are not  in the RM databse referring to the manual tells you that you can by use of the double curly arrows icon below the function list call up generic steam or diesel sound lists for typical Hornby or Bachmann locos. Once you have that list in place it may be easier to modify that than enter it all by hand from scratch if you are not as adept at it as Chris.

 

You may wish to visit the RM Web forum DCC Sound section as that is a mine of information about sound decoders with several contributors actually being sound file/decoder suppliers.

 

Rob

[Percybigun]

thanks for the replies. i've read CV's from 1-30:

CV7 - 059 Loksound Decoder

CV8 - 151 Electronic Solutions Ulm Gm1:

i'm assuming this means i have Loksound 3.5 (although it didn't say in CV's 7 or 8) because on CV 63 (volume), on mine it was set as default 63, range 0-64 (whereas on a V4 CV63 default 180 range 0-92.

Now i've used the loco a bit more its improved and i'm getting used to the sound and its not too bad.

Regarding setting the sounds on the Function buttons, each function does its own sound, no matter what i change it to from the drop-down menu's. The hornby list of functions in the drop-down menu's is very different to the loksound functions, and i've got coaling coming on & off randomly, with other unknown sounds doing the same, and some loksound sounds missing (like station announcement, shunt mode - i really don't know if this works or not?). i know about the on/off thing in the function descriptions, thats not a problem. surely there must be a way of changing the functions in RM? i can change the descriptions, just not the outcome of the functions.

I've listened to a couple of Loksound A1's on youtube and i do have the correct A1 sound file, and i do get approx 6 chuffs to 1 wheel revolution, its just the sound volume of exhaust & chuff i need to increase.

 

on the ESU website they only have instruction manuals for V4, which has different volume settings to V3.5, its a shame they dont show the old version otherwise i wouldnt be stuck!

[Percybigun]

i've now found the manuals for loksound V3 and V3.5, both are very vague (bloody useless in fact) compared to the V4 manual, and dont give lists of the sound functions.

i did try loading this loco into RM as a Hornby Princess Royal with sound (hornby did a special edition with loksound 3.5) but the functions still did the wrong sounds with the default F buttons from the Princess.

[Chrissaf]

The actual Sound the decoder makes is mapped to the Function by the person who created the 'Soundscape' files and loaded them onto the Loksound decoder. The button label drop down box DOES NOT affect what sound is played. The label is just there to tell us humans what the sound is. It is a 'one way edit' you edit the label to match the sound played, not the other way round.

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Since ESU (who manufacturer the Loksound decoders) DO NOT create the 'soundscapes' that go on them. The 'soundscapes' are created by other third parties. Then that is why you will not find any 'sounds played' information in the ESU Loksound manuals. As ESU will not know how the 'soundscape' creators intend to use the Loksound decoder product.

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Read my previous linked post again, in RM you can edit the button labels within certain character limitations to display whatever sound you want it to say. You just edit the buttons to display the sound name that you hear when you click the button.

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You can write your own label text, of choose one from the pull down box. It really isn't rocket science and only takes 5 -10 minutes to complete once you know what you are doing.

[96RAF]

To add to the confusion if you dig deeper into the ESU website sound files area you will find reference to OEM sound files, where the likes of Hornby or Bachmann have provided their own sound files to load onto the v3.5 or v4.0 decoders. ESU states that it cannot provide these files for users to play with and modify to suit and Hornby or Bachmann are even less likely to hand them over.

 

As Chris says RM is only a playback tool. What is mapped by the installer on the decoder is what plays when you press that function button. You can write in the description whatever you like, it won’t change what comes out of the speaker. You can remap the decoder so that say F3 plays this instead of that, then you would also need to amend the RM description for your own edification.

 

Bespoke sound file loads should be locked against user deletion during a reset but some are not so be aware of this and read the famous manual In attempt to confirm it or not.

 

As Chris also says it isn’t rocket science, which in itself isn’t that difficult either according to u-Tube and Wiki.

Rob

[Percybigun]

Thanks for explaining, i've worked out what most of the functions are now. Background exhaust was turned off, and volume was dimmed.

as for the low sound, i found several holes around the original esu speaker rim that needed filling, and more holes needed drilling in the coal, those 2 things inproved the sound alot but was still a bit lame. So i added a 2nd speaker in parallel, i bought the esu 100 ohm 2w bass reflex in enclosure, and turned master volume down to 58, now it sounds pretty smart. I must say, the esu speakers are small and tinny (even the bass reflex) compared to others i've used, and much more expensive because they are 100 ohm. Anyway i'm happy now, the loco only cost £80 and the new speaker £12!

[Percybigun]

Further to the above extra speaker upgrade etc, i was still surprised that the chuff at low speeds sounded like a pencil being tapped on a desk, no steam engines sound like that, especially not an A1, and this is supposed to be a high-end decoder. Anyway i found the problem, cv's 59 & 60 (defaults 32) adjust the PITCH of the chuff (or idle rpm on a diesel). So i tried some settings and found that cv59 - 16 and cv60 - 48 gives it a genuine realistic steam chuff sound. Also i changed cv58 (chuff rate) from 32 to 42 and now it does 6 chuffs per second.

 

alot of people complained about esu 3.5's having rubbish volume & sounds by default, the fix is well hidden! i bet thats why the previous owner of this loco sold it. Glad i found a solution! 

[Fishmanoz]

Well done Percy! 

 

Just one thought - by adding your new speaker in parallel to the original, you’ve turned the nominal 100 ohms into 50 ohms so no longer properly matched to the amplifier output. Not only that, you now have a combination of bad sound and good sound being produced.  In short, try disconnecting the original speaker. 

[Percybigun]

I will try disconnecting the original speaker to see how it sounds, but i read somewhere that v3.5 sounds better with 2 speakers even if they are mismatched.

cv58 chuff rate should be 41 not 42, for 6 chuffs per wheel rev