Backup of loco CV data

[BagEndJct]

I've tried searching the forum and read the relevant bits in the RM guide but can't find an answer.

 

In the past, I have lost all the CV settings of one or two locos. I would like to keep a backup of all the CVs of all my locos.

 

If I get RM (Pro) to read all CVs of my locos, then do a backup, will those CVs be stored in the backup files or is just the basic loco data stored? (The guide states at the beginning under features of the Pro version:- "Quick data backup system (locos, plans and programs) to secure your data", but then later, in the section on doing backups, it is not clear what exactly is being backed-up.

 

Thanks.

[Chrissaf]

JMRI DecoderPro will keep a database record of the CVs it reads in a loco decoder. DecoderPro is 'open source' software, meaning it is free to use without restriction. I am fairly certain that it will work with the Hornby Elite, but categorically doesn't work with eLink. I use DecoderPro for saving my loco CV values, but I use a 'SPROG II' interface instead of my Elite when I am using it.

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I don't use ProPack, but I am about 95% sure that the back-up function in ProPack does not extend to backing up loco CVs in a form that will be useful to you (see very last paragraph in this reply). Not unless someone has found a 'workaround'. I am also fairly sure that I have seen this exact question asked before and the same answer was given to it. What I do know about the ProPack 'back-up' feature, is that it uses the files in the railmaster program folder that have the .BAK extension. These .BAK files save the following data:

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• Track Plans (files with .PLN extension)
• Loco Roster (Resource.mdb)
• RM Programs (files with .PRG extension)
• Groups data (Groups.dat)

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This statement is in effect confirmed by the following manual extract Page 132:

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/media/tinymce_upload/b76d9788ae10ff38b7aebda7bb1d9cef.jpg

Notice the line highlighted in yellow, basically it is saying that the ProPack feature is just doing with a ProPack 'button' click what you can do manually with the stated files in the 'Standard' edition. No less, no more.

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In the 'Standard' edition, if I recall correctly (my recollection may be in error), if you read all appropriate CVs for a loco then save the loco afterwards in the 'resource.mdb' database. The next time you load that loco and open the CV 'read/write' window, then the previously read CV values are populated in the appropriate fields. So in that respect, the CV values have the potential to be stored in the 'resource.mdb' file.

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However, if you then fit a new decoder (or one that has been wiped clean of values) in the loco and put it on the programming track, you can't then click a button in RailMaster (as one doesn't exist) to clone all those previously read CV values into the new decoder (which is what I think is the feature that you are hoping to achieve).

[BagEndJct]

Thanks Chris. As I use Elink and don't have an Elite, I'm afraid JMRI DecoderPro is not an option. 

 

I have just remembered that there is an option in the CV list window to print the list and this is what I'll have to do for each loco, I think.

 

Interestingly, there is a button to the right of the Print button in the CV list which does nothing and does not appear in the image of this window in the user guide (Page 69). It looks almost like a disk or 'save' button so maybe there was the intention to provide an option to save the CVs list? 

[Chrissaf]

Interestingly, there is a button to the right of the Print button in the CV list which does nothing and does not appear in the image of this window in the user guide (Page 69).

....so maybe there was the intention to provide an option to save the CVs list?

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Since I don't have ProPack, I am unable to experiment with this ghostly button. Maybe someone with ProPack could see if they can get it to do something. But chances are (if it does anything), that it only saves the CV list as an electronic text file rather than a printed paper version. To use it for want you want to do, one would need to have some kind of 'Import' CV list function as well.

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I had forgotten about ProPack having a 'Print CV' feature. Not ideal, but at least that will give you a paper record of what the CVs were, so that they can be manually entered again.......better than nothing.

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I think the problem with the CV 'read / write' window for what you want to do is, once the loco is loaded and the CV's populated with values (assuming my recollection in my first reply is correct), then they are all listed as black on white i.e. their previous read value. They have to be changed to the 'ready to write' CV colour (can't quite remember if that is red or green) before they will be written when clicking the write 'pen' icon, as only specifically selected CVs are written with the pen icon tool. I suspect that RailMaster is purposely written that way, so that only changed CV values are written, else it would take too long to overwrite all the existing values that are not being changed. I suppose what is needed, is a button that changes all the populated existing (previously read, black on white) values into the 'ready to write' to decoder colour to force RM to write all CV values to the decoder.

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The problem with that idea, is that when you perform a 'read all CVs' initially to get your baseline CV value data in RailMaster. There is no guarantee that all the read values will be 100% correct. I find many times that I have to read a suspect CV more than once to get the correct value returned. These are situations where I previously knew for a fact what a CV value was and the value I was expecting has not been returned in the 'read' activity. Thus, if you then blindly overwrote all CVs, then you could potentially be implementing invalid entries that then become very difficult to find & correct again when things stop working as they should. For me at least, most of my CVs are factory default (write 8 to CV8) with very few modifications. So keeping track of actual values implemented is fairly easy.

[Fishmanoz]

First thing I would be doing on this is reading the resource.mdb file in Access or Excel to find out what fields it contains. Does it have all of the CV values in it?  If not, and I suspect not except for throttle and functions, then it can’t possibly later restore those values to the decoder. And I suspect, even if it does hold the values, it won’t be able to automatically write them back to the loco.  You would have to do that yourself. 

 

But then I may be talking through my hat, again.

[Fireman_Ian]

Just to clarify Chrissaf, JMRI will write cv values using the Elite, it will not read cv values, I had to buy a Sprog to use with JMRI.

 

I believe the Elite can only receive data from JMRI not send data back.

 

Ian.

[Chrissaf]

Thank you Ian for that clarification. Useful to know.

[Fireman_Ian]

I did contact JMRI and they gave me suggestions to change the COM port settings to get it working but I was hesitant to do that for fear of loosing my Railmaster connection.

[St1ngr4y]

First thing I would be doing on this is reading the resource.mdb file in Access or Excel to find out what fields it contains. Does it have all of the CV values in it?  If not, and I suspect not except for throttle and functions, then it can’t possibly later restore those values to the decoder. And I suspect, even if it does hold the values, it won’t be able to automatically write them back to the loco.  You would have to do that yourself. 

 

But then I may be talking through my hat, again.

 

Not this time Fishy. The resource.mdb file does hold the values, but as Chris pointed out earlier, there isn't a button to press in RM to restore the values to the decoder. However, when you select a loco in the loco configuration window, then go to "loco info", it does populate the CV table on the screen from this file, even if the loco isn't on the programming track.

 

Here is an image of what the CVs look like in the resource.mdb file when read into Excel:-

 

/media/tinymce_upload/2eddae507cf7cc43892ff4cfb38a3baf.png

Each row of the spreadsheet is for one locomotive and RM has crammed all of the CVs for each loco into one column - not very pretty  🤔

 

Ray