Hornby non tts Duke of Gloucester smoke unit

[pendeenpete]

I am planning to fit a Seuthe No 22 to my Duke of Goucester which is fitted with a Zimo mx600, the only information that makes sense to me states that the function output is 500ma.

I think that should be fine for the Seuthe provided Zimo mean each function,they also state that a smoke unit should normally be wired to the brown and blue wires.

Realise this is a bit specific,but can anyone confirm this will be ok?

[2e0dtoeric]

I think you will find that the smoke unit will very quickly fry the decoder!

There are several threads on this in here, in various places. The smoke unit alone pulls an amp or more (1000mah).

Apart from that, they tend to spit blobs of oil all over your track and scenery, and it is almost impossible to remove again.

Add to that the risk of MELTING you loco, and that once fitted, you have to keep oil in it all the time, or the heater element burns out.

You have to ask yourself - is it really worth the hassle of fitting it?

[Chrissaf]

Although in principal I would agree with everything Eric has said regarding whether it is worth the hassle or not, and the risk of melting the chimney stack. I would just point out that although some smoke units can draw a lot of current. The spec for the Seuthe 22 states a current draw requirement of only 120mA approx. The Zimo manual is also written such that it indicates that the decoder supports several smoke specific features such as for example 'auto timed shutdown' to help prevent overheating.

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[pendeenpete]

Thanks to you both,I don't plan to have the smoke unit on for long periods,and I am aware of their drawbacks.

To Chrissaf,I can't make head nor tail of the Zimo manual,if you can understand it,could you tell me if I connected the green and blue wires to the smoke unit,would the mx 600 take it,and what funtion key would operate it ? 

I think the manual says it will be function key 3,and the total load for accessories is 500  ma,so am assuming if the smoke unit draws 120 ma and I don't use the other accessory wires for anything else it should be ok.

The No 22 is supposed to be plastic safe,not sure whose plastic though.

 

Thanks for any advice

[mjb1961]

Hello Pete ,,,,,if I were you I would give Olivia's in Sheffield a ring ,,,,they fit smoke units amongst other things ,,they would be able to tell you what smoke generator and decoder to use ,and how to do it,,also you should be able to turn the generator on and off via a dcc function ,,hope this helps ,,,mjb

[Chrissaf]

To Chrissaf,I can't make head nor tail of the Zimo manual,if you can understand it,could you tell me if I connected the green and blue wires to the smoke unit,would the mx 600 take it,and what function key would operate it 

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Yes it is a heavy going manual to read. My interpretation of the manual, and I should stress that this is only my interpretation and may be in error, is as follows:

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With regard specifically to the Zimo MX600. For smoke you can use either Function Output 1 (FA1) or Function Output 2 (FA2). FO1 is indeed the green wire for the switched negative. The positive return is the blue wire as standard on all decoders. The brown wire being FO2 (FA2). F1 would normally be reserved for switching sound on & off (hence perhaps the suggestion you highlighted to use the brown F2 wire), but since the Zimo MX600 is not a sound decoder there is no real reason why F1 should be reserved.

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Looking at the Zimo function mapping in the manual it would appear that FO1 (FA1) is conveniently mapped to the controller F1 command key. Thus F1 should be the controller command to switch smoke on and off if using the green wire. The brown wire being mapped to F2.

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Additionally, there is a special effect CV that modifies the action of the FO1 (FA1) output. This CV is CV127 and the default value for CV127 is zero which equates to the special effect being disabled. If you make CV127 = 72 then the smoke effect should become dependant upon loco speed & load.

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Note for a Diesel loco engine exhaust port CV127 would be 80 not 72

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For the smoke generator to work (if CV127 is not zero), you also have to set a value (default is zero - disabled) for CVs 137, 138 & 139.

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Note that these three CVs only need to be modified from their default zero values if CV127 is NOT zero. That is to say either 72 or 80

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The valid range (excluding the zero default) for these three CVs is 1 to 255. Some experimentation will be required to find the optimum values between 1 and 255. I suggest starting half way at 127.

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CV137 controls the amount of smoke generated with loco at standstill.

CV138 controls the amount of smoke generated with the loco cruising.

CV139 controls the amount of smoke generated with the loco in acceleration.

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Manual extracts used for the above analysis:

Link to online manual used in this reply.

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Note: Depending upon how your browser is configured the link above may download the manual PDF in the background, so if you think it has not worked then check your nominated browser download folder.

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Page 26

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Page 33

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Page 34

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Correspondingly, the brown wire is FO2 (FA2) and uses the F2 controller function key.

F2 would use CV128 = 72 (not CV127) to switch the special effects on & off.

CV128 also shares CVs 137 to 139 with CV127 for its behaviour modification.

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The manual says FO1 (FA1) or FO2 (FA2) can be used for smoke. So that infers that you can use either the green or brown wire for the smoke unit, provided the total aggregate current load for all the function outputs combined do not exceed 500mA.

 

 

 

[pendeenpete]

Thank so much,for such a detailed reply, I failed 0 level french so have no chance with the gobblededook in that manual.

The smoke unit was a birhday present,so am willing to give a try.

And thanks for the link to Olivia's from mjb61 

[Chrissaf]

Addendum to my last reply.

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Forgot to include in my last reply CV353 controls the Smoke Generator Auto Shutdown timer. The default is zero (timer disabled) the timer range of CV353 is 1 to 255 where each increment in the value, adds 25 seconds to the timer. So for example CV353 = 100 = 100 x 25 secs = 2,500 seconds = 41 minutes 40 seconds.

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Manual extract Page 33

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Also note: Re-reading the Zimo manual again. It may be ?? that CVs 137 to 139 are only applicable and functional on a Sound equipped Zimo decoder, which the MX600 is not.

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Note ?? the manual is not  written with 100% clarity on this matter. So until you try setting CV137 to CV139 you won't necessarily know.

[pendeenpete]

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[Chrissaf]

Question: Was CV137 to 139 adjustable on your MX600?

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I notice that there is a lot of smoke lying on the track around the loco. Just bear in mind the comments many have made regarding the oil residue the smoke leaves behind over the track and layout. You may need to invest in a track cleaning wagon that uses a liquid cleaning chemical tank and rail pads (for example something like the CMX or Sharge cleaners or equivalent).

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Nice photo by the way.......

[pendeenpete]

This was for the benefit of viewers 😆,my favourite track cleaner is an old Lima 4 wheel one,it has built in weights,a pad that accepts my track friendly medical alcohol,and is better by far than the old Triang ones,that are quite good if you are on a budget

[pendeenpete]

Regarding cv 137 etc,didn't try them, I did try cv 13 to make the function the green wire controls work on do, it didn't !