ESU " Lokpilot standard" 2014 Decoder chip not present in database

[Pietrarsa]

Hi there,

 

I have a registered and up to date (version 1.69) of railmaster that works fine.

 

One of my locos is fitted with a "ESU 53611" "Lokpilot standard" decoder. The values of CV7 and 8 are respectively 255 and 151.

 

The software warns that this chip decoder is not present in the database.

 

I selected "Lokpilot" in the option menu of CV 7 and when wrote CV 7 nothing changed it reversed to 255.

 

As written in the decoder manual, i would change the CV 113 (F0 forward lights brightness and behaviour) to value 115 (3 brightness and 112 fade) railmaster tells me that only 0 to 3 are valid values. I also tried to write that value in binary 8 based "[01110011], but it translates to 115 and again no valid value.

 

Anyone here experienced this problem?

If yes does anyone have a solution?

 

Thanks mates

[96RAF]

CV7 is not writable. You cannot magically turn one decoder into another by giving it a new number In CV7. If Lokpilot is in the RM drop down list just select it and the read cycle will go on load the CV set for that decoder type. If it is not then request HRMS to include it as prompted on screen.

 

Other CVs, you can only write decimal numbers. I find I have to delete the old value using backspace before inputting the new value, then writing that value. You can input several new values before writing.

 

For a known bad ID read decoder, I pull down the decoder from the list before asking for the read cycle to start. This I find more reliable than having thenread cycle bad ID the decoder then me having to interupt to choose the correct decoder type.

 

Usually value 255 means the read back has been unsuccessful.

Rob

[96RAF]

Just to confirm the Lokpilot is supported in RM.. Once selected RM should continue to read all associated CV values.

Rob

/media/tinymce_upload/0b57f93784ec0c2cdf868a7c72768a7f.JPG

[Pietrarsa]

Just to confirm the Lokpilot is supported in RM.. Once selected RM should continue to read all associated CV values.

Rob

 

Hi Rob, I tried also the way you suggest. Yes, it populates the definitions of CVs, "greying" the ones not supported by the chip.

As I would just try to write the CV 113 with values to lower the headlights it warns me that only "0 to 3" are valid.

This is an abstract from the decoder manual:

CV     Name                               Description                                                           Values   Deafult

113 Head light configuration Defines brightness and mode of output Head light 0 - 255 15

114 Rear light configuration Defines brightness and mode of output Rear light 0 - 255 15

 

[Pietrarsa]

Now I'm experiencing a similar issue with a Lenz standard+ decoder. In this case it happens that reading CVs shows:

1) warning that the chip is not recognizable

2) all CVs at value of 255

Populating the table by selecting appropriate decoder model in the dropdown list doesn't help, as reading always report 255 for all CVs (except 7 and 8 filled by dropdown).

No way to write CVs, when I try to change loco address from 3 to 45 (that's loco ID I choose) it starts writing and confirming, the loco on program track turns on lights when processing, it also writes (not ordered) CV 29 with strange values and then ...

...everything as before: the decoder is still at 3 as loco ID (and works fine on layout tracks).

It seems that no read/write activity has been done.

Of course I tried other decoders I have (lenz silver, hornby) and the program track has no captation problems, I also tried to bypass the layout scheme and connect directly the prg/out of elink to a separate power track.

No way.

[Chrissaf]

2) all CVs at value of 255

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All 255 values, just mean that the decoder can not be detected. Something is wrong with the data reading path between the controller and the loco on the programming track.

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Thus the decoder can't be recognized because the controller can't see it.

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If you are using Hornby track and a Hornby power clip or power track. Make doubly sure that it a DCC one and NOT a DC Analogue one. Using a DC power connection kills the ability to read and write CVs on some decoders.

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Open the clips (see images below) and look for a capacitor soldered across the track power connections. If one is present, snip it out with side cutters and discard. DCC power connectors must not have the capacitor present.

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/media/tinymce_upload/02014e08c3900190baa00ab5bd936de2.jpg

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/media/tinymce_upload/88d66c94324ea335a2f41da40c0a3464.jpg

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[96RAF]

I am not sure if you are saying the eLink has no programming output or if some decoders will program and some will not.

If all decoders fail to program and if the normal checks don’t work it may be the eLink programming circuit has died.

Rob

[Pietrarsa]

2) all CVs at value of 255

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Open the clips (see images below) and look for a capacitor soldered across the track power connections. If one is present, snip it out with side cutters and discard. DCC power connectors must not have the capacitor present.

.

 

Thank you very much Chrissaf.

Yes! That was the trick! (...the F* capacitor...) Now it works fine with the not responding/writing decoder Lenz Standard!

 

Unfortunately the ticket I opened with HRMS will not close for the "lokpilot standard" decoder, as it still lists as not present in the database.

It should be not a problem if Railmaster could bypass the database info, and allows to write any supported value in CVs. For me it's ok not recognizable kind of decoder, if I'd be able to write appropriate (by dec istructions) values in CVs.

I repeat: I can write to this esu lokpilot decoder, but the CV that I want to modify (CV113) is interpreted by RM as a 0-3 limited entry range, when I simply would write 19.

Could be possible that RM simply warns you that modifying this CV with an over range value would damage the decoder, letting you choose Y or N?

It would be a simple software change because there is already a pop up that warns for over range entries resetting to default (from database), with only a OK/close option.

[Chrissaf]

Thank you very much Chrissaf.

Yes! That was the trick! (...the capacitor...) Now it works fine with the not responding/writing decoder Lenz Standard!

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Sometimes it is so easy to overlook the basics, particularly when Hornby documentation is so abysmally poor that it fails to clearly explain the need to use appropriate DCC components on the layout.

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Thank you for clarifying your solution fix. So many times we get a 'Problem Solved' post that doesn't give the detail of what actually solved it.

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PS - Note if you use now or use in the future the Hornby R8201 Link Wires. The R8201 is designed for DC and also contains these pesky capacitors.

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With regard your second issue.....

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It would not be a problem if RailMaster could bypass the database info, and allowed writing any supported value in CVs

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My understanding is that the detection of the decoder type is just supposed to be a convenience feature. You should still be able to write to an individual CV from the basic CV writing screen without doing a read of the CVs first. If you don't do a 'read CVs' first then RM doesn't know that it is a decoder that is not in the database. See my example that follows:

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For example I have used the RM Loco CV writing screen to write 8 to CV8 to an Accessory Decoder, and that is not even a loco, let alone a loco decoder. So if you open the 'Loco Setting' screen as if setting up a completely new loco. Leave all the loco entries blank and go straight to the CV writing screen without reading anything at all. You should (based upon my experience) be able to go straight to a CV and write to it in isolation.

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This of course assumes that Hornby have not for some reason put in a Global 0-3 range restriction on CV113 for some inexplicable reason.

[96RAF]

You can overule RM and attempt to write any value you like to any CV but the outcome will rely upon if that particular decoder will accept that value to  that CV. Usually those parameters are set in concrete by the decoder manufacturer as guided by any NMRA mandate or recommendation.

 

Those RM limitation warnings you see may intrude and reject any such value offering but if you have a discrete controller you can by-pass RM and do it manually, again within limits.

 

What  is the problem with RM not recognising a Lokpilot when it is in the pull doen list. It maybe not be flagged as ‘standard’ or other variant but it is there and the basic definition should be accurate.

 

Rob

[Pietrarsa]

My understanding is that the detection of the decoder type is just supposed to be a convenience feature. You should still be able to write to an individual CV from the basic CV writing screen without doing a read of the CVs first. If you don't do a 'read CVs' first then RM doesn't know that it is a decoder that is not in the database. See my example that follows:

.Again, Thanks a lot for this other trick, actually I never though to use blank CV screen to write at all...

 

It simply WORKS!

In this mode I bypassed the annoying 0-3 fixed range in CV 113 and I finally have zooming light!

 

[Chrissaf]

Glad I got you sorted......again.

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As I said in my last reply. HRMS only include the 'pull down' decoder choice box as a convenience feature. Well let us just say that it is convenient when it works.

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With most software It is just a case of thinking outside the box and trying things. I needed to factory reset a R8247 Accessory Decoder and couldn't do it within the RM Accessory Decoder programming screen (as I don't have ProPack). So thought about it for a bit, tried my idea as documented in my other post and found it worked. I find trial and error really is a good way to learn how to get the best use out of most software....even RailMaster.

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However it did help that I've read and have a reasonable basic understanding of the NMRA DCC communication protocol standards, so from that basic understanding of how the DCC protocol works I soon came to the conclusion that there was no reason why using a completely blank loco screen shouldn't work in RM.

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Check out my DCC Monitor post in Ray's thread if you want to learn more about DCC protocols.

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[Pietrarsa]

You can overule RM and attempt to write any value you like to any CV but the outcome will rely upon if that particular decoder will accept that value to  that CV. Usually those parameters are set in concrete by the decoder manufacturer as guided by any NMRA mandate or recommendation.

 

Those RM limitation warnings you see may intrude and reject any such value offering but if you have a discrete controller you can by-pass RM and do it manually, again within limits.

 

What  is the problem with RM not recognising a Lokpilot when it is in the pull doen list. It maybe not be flagged as ‘standard’ or other variant but it is there and the basic definition should be accurate.

 

Rob

Hi Rob,

again, the problem is that when I populate the CV r/w screen with definitions by pulldown selection, as you suggest (and as I first tried looking in the supported list), it puts an un-overcoming limit to CV 113 of 0-3 range instead of 0-255 as manufacturer manual.

 

So I was unable to write any "out-of-(fake)range" value, until @Chissaf suggested me the trick of using blank CV screen to arbitrary write any CV on the prog track connected decoder.

 

PS: I only have elink as controller.

[96RAF]

I would report that anomaly to HRMS and they can remove the limitation from the LokPilot listing.

Rob

[Pietrarsa]

Already done.

😆