Hornby R8247 - Not Responding

[George Blythe]

I have a R8247 Accessory decorder working with a Select controller 

I am aware of the issues associated with the product but all solutions seem to require an Elite or Rilmaster to rectify 

On a test track of simply one R8206 power from Select Controller and a R8206 in series to the R8247. The R8247 hums loudly indicating power when pressing the directional arrows, the screen displays p6 and p5 as it should but with no output to the R8243 i have multiple and have tried all

All wiring has been double checked and is as instructed by the manual

When attempting to reprogram, the hum stops from the R8247 as the Select controller shows three red flashes 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[96RAF]

What is the revision state of your Select. Check the first number seen on startup before the 30-03.

The was a bug in early Select firmware that killed R8247s, since fixed.

My units have never hummed, idle or working.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

On a test track of simply one R8206 power from Select Controller and a R8206 in series to the R8247.

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The most glaringly obvious issue you have put into your post text is the mention of using TWO R8206 power tracks as re-quoted above.

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The R8206 is a DC Analogue power track and not suitable for Digital DCC operation. The R8206 contains a 0.1uF suppression capacitor across the track. This capacitor shunts DCC signals reducing their power and distorting the digital waveform. If you have TWO R8206's connected to your track, then the Digital DCC signal is being doubly distorted.

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Even if this mod (see image below) does not cure your problem you must do it anyway for general DCC operation. Not just on the test track, but also on any track layout you are running that is using Digital DCC control. This includes the Hornby R602 Power Clip connector as well as the Hornby R8206 Power Track, as well as the track clips provided with any R8201 Link Wire kits that you may be using.

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/media/tinymce_upload/ded6531d1bcc4a53e3cade97ace529b8.jpg

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The other glaring thing that stands out in your post is where you wrote:

    ...........and a R8206 in series to the R8247.

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Now if the meaning of this statement is taken literally as you have written it, then the connection of the R8247 seems to be as I have sketched below (the R8247 in series with the Select and the R8206):

/media/tinymce_upload/8e40ab35673e4f5c50a3fb2f0c249973.jpg

If my interpretation of what you have written is correct and you have connected it as per the sketch above, then that will not work.

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The R8247 should come with a R8242 power clip. The official Hornby documented connection method is as per the sketch below (the R8241 and R8242 Power Track & Power Clip are the DCC friendly versions of the Hornby R602 and R8206 track connectors). Electrically, the R8247 is in parallel with the Select, not in series with it.:

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/media/tinymce_upload/1a1d9e6a8e4f676e881b597e887ac1f1.jpg

Although personally my preference would be to connect the R8247 without using the track and the R8242 power clip connector like this using a pair of screw down terminal strips:

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/media/tinymce_upload/d2cddd2b19d195a2fe1cd04abd3e107d.jpg

The main thing is that the R8206 Power tracks must be modified to remove the capacitors, and correcting the R8247 wired in series connections if it is actually wired this way as your written words suggest.

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TIP: I write long posts. If you intend to write a reply, it would be appreciated if you didn't use the 'White Arrow in Blue Box' button. This is not a 'Reply to this post button. It is best to write any reply you want to make in the 'Reply Text Box' at the very bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

 

Particularly as my reply includes an image. If you use the blue button, any reply you write may be held back for image approval. Even though it is already a previously published image.

 

[George Blythe]

Evening

RAF96 - Thank you for the response, The Select controller reads 12 30 03 upon start up

CHRISSAF - Thank you for your reply. my set up currently matches your second diagram. Having followed your advice i removed the capaciter and the R8247 has stopped humming, but again not activating the R8243 attached. when reprogramming the red light now flashes 8 times and not 3 as befor.

Best Regards

[96RAF]

Firmware v1.2 is OK for R8247 use. The problematic revision was v1.1.

Please confirm you are giving the R8247 an address within the range 61 to 99.

Rob

[George Blythe]

Evening

Yes i am programming to 61

Best Regards

[Chrissaf]

As you yourself stated:

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I am aware of the issues associated with the product but all solutions seem to require an Elite or RailMaster to rectify.

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Assuming that you are trying to configure it with the Select using the correct methodology - see YouTube video comment later below. Then you appear to have a genuine issue with the R8247.

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Usually, a misbehaving R8247 needs to be factory reset to regain some element of functionality. The humming caused by the track power clip capacitors (now removed) may possibly have done something to the R8247 that either can't be DIY rectified or needs a 'factory reset' to clear.

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A factory reset requires value 8 to be written to CV8, something the Select cannot currently do. Hence the reference to RailMaster (eLink) and/or Elite which can write to CVs.

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Later this year, firmware 1.6 for the Select is planned to be made available. The exact date is unknown but should in theory be before October 2019. Version 1.6 is planned to provide CV writing capability for CVs 1 to 255. If you can't wait for this release, then you could try taking the R8247 to a suitably equipped Model Railway Shop (with a workshop). They could then write 8 to CV8 and do a 'factory reset' for you. If not a Model Shop, maybe a local model railway club or possible a friend with a suitable DCC controller.

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If you were to video the technique that you are using to configure port 1 of the R8247 with address 61 and then post that video on YouTube with a link to it posted back in this forum thread, then at least we would be in a better position to advise if we could see anything obviously wrong with your configuration method.

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[George Blythe]

Morning

Thank you for the help, it is upsetting that the select cannot perform the task, I have arranged to take the R8247 to a friend who has an Elite, and try the troubleshooting suggested in other forum postings

Thank you for your time and responses

Best Regards

[Chrissaf]

I suggest you take your Select with you. Use your friends Elite to do the 8 to CV8 reset, but then put the R8247 back on the Select to set the address.

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Just be aware that when reading back a R8247 address using the Elite. The Elite dispays the 'Group' address and not the actual DCC address. DCC address 61 will be displayed as 'Group' address 16 (page 59 of the Elite manual refers).

[96RAF]

As the Select effectively programs on the main (i.e. same as Elite does in operational mode) it is unable to readback any CV values. This is a limitation of POM (prog on main).

Once Select v1.6 hits the streets you will be able to have your Select updated (advised anyhow to get full function support) and then it will be able to change CVs.

Rob

[George Blythe]

Afternoon,

I have attached a link to instergram regarding the reprograming

https://www.instagram.com/p/BsvL9EmHG0j/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Best Regards

[Chrissaf]

OK having reviewed your video. You appear to performing the correct steps. The Select red LED is only flashing 2 or 3 times and nowhere near 7 flashes. It does look like the Select is not accepting the configuration.

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On your friends Elite, what Group number is being read when reading the R8247 address?

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Whilst on the subject of your friends Elite, did you get anywhere with using his Elite to reset the R8247 to factory default or using his Elite to operate your R8247 (the factory default address of the R8247 by the way is Port 1 = 1 to Port 4 = 4).

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The only thing I would have done different in your video would be to do away with the two power tracks. And wire the DCC Input of the R8247 DIRECTLY to the TRACK output of the Select (PROG output on the Elite).

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Up until now it has been assumed that the R8243 is wired correctly to the R8247 (see text below) and is itself not faulty.

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Looking at your video, the Green wire is clearly visibly terminated incorrectly on the middle C terminal. Your Green and Black wires are crossed over. It is the Peco PL11 point motor that uses Green for the common return. The Hornby R8243 uses Black as the common return.

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This wiring colour difference catches a lot of people out. People wrongly assume that the + & - terminals define positive (red) and negative (black). This is not the case. The C terminal is positive and the + & - terminals are both switched negative. In this scenario, the red & black wire colours of the R8243 point motor have absolutely no voltage polarity significance.

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• The Green wire should go on the - terminal.
• The Red wire should go on the + terminal.
• The Black wire should go on the C terminal.

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/media/tinymce_upload/62099f31ff06e5af31e0f2a7702a81bf.jpg

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Correcting this basic wiring error, may or may not cure your problem. It depends upon whether your R8247 configuration is still compromised or not. But at least having the R8243 wires wired correctly will go in some way to move your issue towards a resolution.

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With the wiring crossed as you had it, the R8243 should still have worked at least in one direction or at the very least made some faint clicking noises. If the R8243 was completely silent in each and every test, then there still looks to be an issue with the R8247 accepting its configuration.

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With the wiring corrected, does the R8243 make ANY kind of noise or faint clicking when being tested with the R8247. If it doesn't, then test the R8243 manually as described below (worth doing anyway, just to cover all the possible diagnostic bases):

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Testing the R8243.

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Using two fresh brand new 9 volt batteries, clip the two batteries together so that you end up with one battery of 18 volts. See image below:

/media/tinymce_upload/67186c39ed5adea46877e31b607ce79f.jpg

Other battery brands are available.

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Now hold the black wire of the R8243 on one of the free battery terminals (it doesn't matter which one). Now BRIEFLY** touch the Green and Red wires (individually one at a time) on the other free battery terminal. Does the R8243 robustly operate in each direction. If it does, then you know that the R8243 is not faulty.

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Note** - Just a touch of the Green or Red wire on the battery, do not hold it on, else you risk heat damaging the R8243.

[George Blythe]

Evening,

Thank you for the help regarding the wiring i have corrected it, unfortunately no change.

The R8243 has been tested with the conventional DC setup using a yellow throw switch and is working.

I have been lent a E-Link the accessory decoder information on the programming screen is:

ID:25.5

Delay 15

output port no.   Pulse dur. (ms) 

6629                   25500

6630                   25500

6631                   25500

6632                   25500

The program is detecting the R8247 but any attempt to rewrite dosn't affect the numbers on the programming screen

Best Regards

[Chrissaf]

Those exact read values have been reported before. There was no 100% confirmed easy fix posted on that occasion. They look like corrupted firmware configuration settings, that only a successful 'factory reset' will fix.

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Now that you have access to RM and an eLink, then I strongly advise that you try using that to reset your R8247 back to factory default, before you have to give it back.

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A similar reported scenario was 100% resolved when that forum user found someone with a NCE Powercab controller. They used the NCE Powercab to reset the R8247 by writing 8 to CV8 with it. Once reset on the NCE Powercab, that users Elite (Elite on that occasion, not a Select) was then able to correctly configure and operate the R8247.

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Successfully factory resetting the R8247 I fear is going to be the only way to recover this situation you are in. In the absence of a NCE Powercab, you may have some success using RailMaster instead. Note that the documented process below does not use the R8247 Accessory Decoder configuration screen, so may have more success than just trying to overwrite the settings in the Accessory Decoder configuration screen that you have already tried. If that fails, then it looks like it is a 'return to Hornby for repair' jobby, or find somebody with a NCE Powercab controller.

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Anyway, using RailMaster to factory reset a R8247 is documented in this previous post of mine (4th post down on the page):

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/9065/?p=2

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[96RAF]

Those readback numbers would indicate addresses 31 onwards and a long pulse length. Fishy made hote of this elsewhere recently.

Rob

[George Blythe]

Evening,

I have followed your instructions but unfortunately no change

I will enquire with hornby support and have it sent off

Thank you for all the help and guidance

Best Regards

[Fishmanoz]

And I hote so rarely these days too Rob.

 

GB, if connection to your eLink to read them is the first time you’ve had your 8247 connected to anything but a Select, which cannot change the default 100mSec pulse duration, then something really weird is going on and return to Hornby seems your best option.