Problems with ESU SwitchPilot 4-port decoder

[LMS_Dave]

I use Hornby Railmaster with the eLink on a Windows XP laptop.  The software upgraded itself to version 1.70 and ever since I have been having problems with my ESU SwitchPilot 4-port decoders.

I use 5 SwitchPilots across my layout to drive 16 Peco PL-11 side mounted switch solenoids and have been using the arrangement for about 2 years.  The SwitchPilots are fed from a 16 volt AC transformer and one half of a DCC T bus.

First thing I noticed after upgrading to version 1.70 was that the startsequence for my points was cycling through as it always has done previously.  Instead I just heard one loud buzz as if several point motors were being switched against themselves.  Then I noticed that some of my point motors weren't working.  So, I bench tested each one of the ESU SwitchPilots to make sure their addressing was correct and that they were firing correctly.  They all tested fine.

When I tested the PL-11s I found 6 of the 16 to be dead.  A bit strange.

I went through the power-up cycle for my eLink and Railmaster again and one of the solenoids kept buzzing after the cycle and only worked once as part of a switching sequence.  I unplugged the AC supply and it worked again, but only once, again as part of a switching sequence.  It was then that I noticed the PL-11 was smoking and really hot to touch.  That was when I realised it had burnt out.  So, I disconnected it from the SwitchPilot, disconnected AC power and power cycled the eLink and Railmaster again.

This time another PL-11 on a different SwitchPilot started smoking and burnt out.  I've now diconnected all of the SwitchPilots from my T bus.  Throughout, the Track part of the bus has run fine.

Bit stumped and now 64 quid down on PL-11s.

Anyone got any ideas?

[Fishmanoz]

A couple of thoughts.  First, a curse on a Liverpool retailer and all its houses for ever suggesting anyone buy a Switchpilot from them.  And similarly to Hornby for having the 8247 off the market for an extended period so giving the retailer the opportunity to market the alternative.

 

Second, seems like the Switchpilots have reconfigured their outputs from pulse to continuous?

[LMS_Dave]

Thanks Fishmanoz.  For now, I've removed all the SwitchPilots and PL-11s from my layout to have a more detailed look at them.  When I took each SwitchPilot off line one-by-one last weekend they were all correctly configured and tested fine on the rig I built - and kept - from when I first deployed them in 2017.  I'll let you know how it goes if there's anything worth reporting.  I'd already bought a DCC Concepts Colbalt iP digital to look at with Peco Electrofrog points, so it may be I just bin the SwitchPilots altogether.  I have to say I'm getting very disenchanted with Hornby products overall though.  The eLink and Railmaster have been a labour of love since I bought them - the procedure that needed to be adopted for resetting after a derail short circuit being one particularly annoying example.  I'm finding the Hornby RTR track with its plastic frogs causes DCC problems for some of my short wheelbase locos and/or anything with limited pickups and, with the exception of one or 2 of the more recent releases, the Hornby locos always seem to be flaky in some way.  Hornby just doesn't seem to be good value for money.

[Chrissaf]

LMS_Dave

Just as an aside to your main issue. When you get a track short and your eLink trips. Do you get the little red button appearing in the 'Stop' button shown in the image below? If you do, then this is an eLink reset button that negates the need to unplug and power cycle the eLink controller. If it is not present, then you probably need to perform a mod to your railmaster.ini file.

.

/media/tinymce_upload/9026dfbb00fc28589418d4515f94d5a7.png

.

For further information on this undocumented RM eLink feature see this previous post.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/short-circuit-recovery/?p=1

[LMS_Dave]

Thanks Chris!  The .ini modification was the procedure I was relating to.  I eventually got to the infamous red button last year.  It has partially alleviated the frustration in that I no longer have to Exit/Open RailMaster to resolve shorts, however, after the red button reset is performed, I still get an error telling me that the eLink can’t be found which involves power cycling it and then going through another software cycle for it to be refound by RailMaster.  The other measure I put in place is a bank of 4 DCC Concepts supplied DCC Specialities PSX-1 circuit breakers to segment out my track in to 4 sections.  I can bring these in and out of circuit via a 4-pole change over switch to cope with older locos that may draw more than their threshold current.  So, thankfully, the RailMaster shorts are far fewer than they used to be.  Irritatingly, I had just chaned over to non-isolating points when I came across the PSX-1s which meant putting back in the isolating points, but that’s life I guess...

[Chrissaf]

LMS_Dave,

Your posts as written, infers that you let RM auto update to version 1.70 (which by the way was bug ridden), but there is no indication that you have subsequently installed the later 'bug' fix versions. There have been a total of six different versions of the 1.70.x RM release since the 8th March.

.

Have you installed the very latest 1.70.2 RM release. There were two different versions of the SAME file released on the SAME day just hours apart. Auto update does not work with these ad-hoc HRMS updates, you have to download and install them manually. So to be absolutely sure that you have the very latest release with the latest 'bug' fixes, I suggest downloading and running the RM installer again (using the link to installer at the top of the RM forum).

 

[LMS_Dave]

Right Chris, I have now gone through the RailMaster 1.70 Revision 2 update.  After adjusting the .ini file so that the infamous red button re-appeared, I get exactly the same error message as the eLink re-boots and which is only cleared by unplugging and re-plugging the PSU - as attached/below.Regarding the actualpurpose of this thread, I haven't yet completed a rig so that I can connect all 5 of my ESU SwitchPilots without having to fart about under my baseboard with a tiny slothead screwdriver removing/reattaching the wiring.  The ESU SwitchPilots are the £200-ish of kit that Hattons, apparently, shouldn't have sold me in the first place - great advice as I'm deafened by the banging of the stable door and the distant sound of hooves.  Once I've wired all the ESU SwitchPilots up, I'll complete an investigative test to see if anything is salvagable from the £128 worth of PL-11s that are sat forlornly on the bench.Then, it's off to find a Bachmann stockist to buy the Dynamis Ultima with RailController that I saw at Alli Pally last weekend.  Just glad it's my birthday on Monday!/media/tinymce_upload/66080499fff5dd155a2fabf5f201932b.JPG

[LMS_Dave]

As promised, I have now completed my test rig, run some tests and determined what the problem may have been but not why it occurred.  I share for the general benefit of anyone else who may find themselves in similar circumstances.  Here is a photo of my test rig, not quite as I ran my original testing - which replicated the exact port attachments of the PL-11s as they sat on my layout - but as I intend to re-fit the 10 out of 16 that I salvaged and with a Cobalt Digital iP I'm also evaluating:

/media/tinymce_upload/e2919a2dff8ee6d1d17a00a14aa8e886.JPG

First I used Port 1 on my ESU 1, the one on left of shot to check which PL-11s had burnt out and which had not.  Next I attached a "known good" PL-11 to each port on the other 4 ESUs.  Bizarrely, everything ran well until I got to ESU 5 which, after a bit of head scratching, I worked out had reverted to the default configuration ie it was the same as ESU 1.  Next Itried to read the settings of ESU 5 using the Hornby software tool:

/media/tinymce_upload/8ac8999fd316a8d6cb9a866a02b5774c.JPG

This was utterly futile.  When I then attempted to reprogramme ESU 5 to the settings required for it to map as Ports 17 to 20 - several attempts - this Hornby tool also failed.  The only way I could get the ESU to reprogramme was by using the Locomotive CV Settings window, without setting up any values on the preceding Locomotives window.  By pressing SW1 on my ESU until LED1 started it first flashing sequence and then writing 17 to CV1 and 0 to CV9 I was able to reprogramme ESU 5.  For good measure I also set CVs 3 to 6 as 1 to match with the Bachmann documentation for "PECO-turnout drives".  I powered everything off, rebooted everything from scratch and the ESUs were all behaving as they should.  An inspection of the 6 damaged PL-11s revealled that they had each burnt-out on one of their 2 internal coils.  Bizarrely though, the burn-outs came from Ports 2, 5, 8, 9, 11and 13 which spreads them right across ESUs 1 to 4, but not ESU 5.  That's all I can offer.  Any constructive assistance in understanding how I got to fry 6 previously fully serviceable PL-11s?

[Chrissaf]

If accurate, the image above indicates a pulse length of 520ms. A little over half a second. Ideally these should be nearer 100ms, one tenth of a second. These pulses are still too quick to be able to be timed with any reasonable accuracy on a multimeter due to the meter reading latency.

.

Just to be sure that the decoders are operating correctly. I would replace the PL11 point motor with an LED and resistor. The positive side of the LED going to the decoder common terminal. The LED latency is negligible. Either just observe with eyes or try to use a stop watch to measure how long the LED lights for. Ideally it shouldn't be more than a brief flash. If it stays on for a measurable amount of time, then that could be a contributory factor in overheating the coils.

.

However, that said. I have a vague recollection that a pulse length of 500ms is normal for these particular decoders as they do not IIRC have an internal CDU on their outputs.

.

[LMS_Dave]

Thanks Chris.  I maybe didn't emphasise the point enough for my ESU 5, but that "Accessory decoder" window doesn't seem to work ie the Port settings do not transfer in to the ESUs; this being the case, I can't see how the "Pulse dur" setting would transfer either?  One thing I didn't mention was that, as belt and braces to stop any further burn-outs, I used my workaround measure of Programming CVs 3 to 6 as 1 using the Locomotive CV Settings window on ESUs 1 to 4 as well to make sure their settings matched with the Bachmann documentation for "PECO-turnout drives".  Somehow that first 1.70 upgrade wiped my ESU 5 Ports and, best guess, changed the "Pulse dur" on the others to "Always on (lights)" with a potentially incompatible current setting, such that when I operated the points they just stayed juiced until they burnt out?

[96RAF]

Have you tried setting the module addresses to Group Address i.e. grp 1 = ports 1-4, grp 2 = ports 5-8, ad infinitum. Hornby controllers translate group to port for you hence RM may be trying to do this and failing, and that is maybe why some folk get away with programming their other-make kit as R8247s or locos.

[Fishmanoz]

Yes Chris, you RedC, no CDU in this cursed piece of kit, a reason many couldn’t get it to work on track power, a separate PS needed.  And what that might mean in pulse length for operation v burnout, not too sure.  But hardly equivalent to an 8247, beyond it is possible to get it to control 4 points, as the original blurb indicated.

 

I too can hear the hooves in the distance.  Or as the Goons once said (yes, plays better with sound) as they went to make their escape:  Right, everybody out the back and get on that 9-seater horse ........ Gidday-up!  ....... clippety-clop, clippety-clop (off into the distance) ....... Well, don’t just stand there, after it!

 

And don’t worry about me, just finished my morning coffee so it should kick in soon.