RailMaster 1.70 REVISION 2 now available.

[Alan K]

Chris,

Yes I read Mantagt's posts and the symptoms he mentioned when things were not working do seem to be similar to those I experienced - in particular the attempts to update the firmware. 

I have at last found an opportunity to try the settings:

Alternative comms=1Alternative comms2=1Check controller=0Check controller2=1.

After a couple of attempts and going through the unplug USB, wait and reconnect routine I got both controllers to connect and show as A v1.44 and B v1.07. I managed to get a loco running using Controller A (Elite), however the point motors that should be controlled by Controller B (eLink) stubbornly refused to respond. I changed them to controller A and they then worked. Changed back to B and again none working.

I then tried multiple times restarting RM and rebooting PC before restarting RM and got variations of problems -  losing connection to Controller A (short or USB unplugged) restored after clicking on the tick, both controllers showing as firmware 1.44 and both as 1.07. The points would not operate at all via Controller B and I have yet to get the two controllers to show again correctly as A 1.44 ad B 1.07.

I have to say that I have never come across any other USB devices that do not just work once the relevant driver is installed including for example my ESU Lokprogrammer. It is usually only when a device actually develops a hardware fault that issues arise.

I have worked in IT for over 40 years and so once I embarked on DCC it seemed obvious that I should look at using a computer to control trains.in the same way that I do with my other hobbies - still and video photography. I am familar with hardware and peripherals and have even built several PCs myself though the PC I am currently using for RM is a Lenovo all-in-one. RM has been disappointing as consistently unreliable and with issues with functionality that have been around for years and never fixed as various threads in this forum bear testament.

It may be time to consider alternatives.

[Chrissaf]

Alan,

Prior to RM 1.70 there tended to be a fairly hard and fast set of 'rules of thumb' regarding what .INI file settings to use for Elite and eLink controllers. Since the 1.70.2 release these 'rules of thumb' seem to have been thrown out of the window. Reading the user experiences documented in the last few pages of this thread, there does not seem to be any identifiable pattern. Each user seems to find a set of .INI file configurations that work for them but not consistently for other users. One thing that does seem to be consistent, regardless of what variation of commands you use, they do seem to be more reliable if placed at the end of the .INI file after all other listed entries. Which in itself is an enigma as it shouldn't matter where in a .INI file an entry is placed, if all it is doing is setting a 'flag' in the code for the application to read.

.

Therefore the only logical thing to suggest is that all the different .INI file variations are tried, until you find the one that works for you (if any). The suggested variations below are for a dual controller RM system set-up i.e Controller A [Elite] and Controller B [eLink].

.

A few examples of the possible variations are:

[To save a lot of typing Alternative comms is abbreviated as Ac and Check controller abbreviated to Cc]

.

Ac=1

Cc=1

Ac2=1

Cc2=1

.

Ac=0

Cc=0

Ac2=1

Cc2=1

.

Ac=1

Cc=1

Ac2=0

Cc2=0

.

Ac=0

Cc=0

Ac2=0

Cc2=0

.

Ac=1

Cc=0

Ac2=1

Cc2=0

.

Ac=1

Cc=0

Ac2=0

Cc2=0

.

Ac=0

Cc=0

Ac2=1

Cc2=0

.

Ac=1

Cc=1

Ac2=0

Cc2=1

.

The above is not an exhaustive list of all possible variations, but they are the ones that seem to have more success for some users.

.

PS.....It was subsequently found that the command order you quoted (taken from one of my earlier replies), doesn't work. They have to go Ac followed by Cc followed by Ac2 followed by Cc2. Not Ac, Ac2, Cc, Cc2 as copied below from your reply.

.

Alternative comms=1

Alternative comms2=1

Check controller=0

Check controller2=1

.

Again another enigma similar to the one documented above where order shouldn't really matter, but it does seem to appear to.

 

[96RAF]

Mine was 1 1 0 1

[Alan K]

Chris,

Before starting the lottery of .ini combinations I have tried your suggestion of the same settings in a different order (Morecambe and Previn comes to mind).

Opened RM and controller A not found so edited the .ini file and closed RM.

Restarted RM and got a different message to usual - simply that an Elite could not be found on the specified port. Elite was on port 5 and eLink on port 3 in RM.

Fired up Device Manager and checked the ports. Strangely the Elite was now on port 7. Changed port settings in RM and restarted RM. Lo and behold it found both controllers with 1.44 as A and 1.07 as B. Amazingly RM even managed to activate the point motors via Controller B. While the going was good I took advantage to configure a couple of Cobalt Digital point motors and add them to the RM layout diagram and that worked as it should.

I have not yet plucked up the courage to reboot the PC and check that the controllers still work as I am bemused how the port number for a device can change when plugged into the same physical port and I have never before seen any port above 6 in Device Manager.

[Chrissaf]

So just to clarify....your final working (subject to a reboot & confirmation test) settings & order were:

.

Alternative comms=1        [for Controller A Elite v1.44]

Check controller=0

Alternative comms2=1      [for Controller B eLink 1.07]

Check controller2=1

.

PS - "Morecambe and Previn" comes to mind.......an absolute classic M&W.

.

I haven't gone back and analysed every reply in the two RM 1.70 threads I started, but I believe your potential positive feedback now means that all those who reported Elite & eLink communications issues, now have error free connections using 1.70.2 with .INI file settings that may not be universally the same for all, but do work for them on their particular systems.

[Alan K]

Chris,

Yes I can confirm they are the settings that I used.

At this stage I would agree that my feedback is no more than potentially positive as recent history suggests that RM is quite unpredictable and of course the one thing one expects from a computer program is that with the same inputs it will inevitably produce the same results. In my early days in IT I wrote mainframe computer programs and if there was an error in the code and the program failed the one thing that was certain is that it would always fail in exactly the same way until the code was corrected. Crossing fingers never helped!!

Although I am totally bemused by RM, I will give it another go. However there are many things I would rather spend the limited time I have to work on my model railway on than fighting to overcome the whims and foibles of RM. It should just work and I imagine most people who have experienced the issues highlighted in this forum will simply give up and buy something that does work out of the box.

[BagEndJct]

I reported above the experience I had setting up my new Lenovo with eLink and Railmaster:

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/railmaster-170-revision-2-now-available/?p=5/#post-289816

 

With the latest incarnation of RM it was turning off my eLink as it was testing it on booting. I assumed this was down to something to do with the USB port on the Lenovo.

 

However, back to my trusty Toshiba laptop today, on which I have been running RM via my eLink since the year "dot" and realised I had not updated this to the latest version of RM.

 

 

On booting up, having done the update, it too knocked out my eLink, the first time this has ever happened. So there is something in this version of RM (size 68,041Kb) causing my eLink to "power down" which, as I said, has never happened before. I guess I could set "Check Controller" to zero but then I would lose that little red reset button that I find useful from time to time so I'm going to revert to the previous version for the time being. Maybe in trying to fix one problem, the support people have caused another (for me!). 

 

I'll do an Email reporting this to RM support.

[Chrissaf]

BEJ,

Go back to Page 1 of this thread. Fourth post down by "Trickymundo", regarding the .INI line "Reset eLink on start=n"

.

If you change this value to 0 (zero) [the default for this line is =1] then there is a probability that your eLink then won't power down as part of the RM start up routine.

[BagEndJct]

Chris

 

I'll try this tomorrow. Odd it occurred quite early on for others (before the latest update I believe) but for me, this has only just happened. I'll report back asap.

[Alan K]

Chris,

Tried again today. Controller A initially not found but after carring out the usual usb disconnect and reconnect both controllers connected. Again the points worked via controller B.

With RM "working" I thought I would carry on with some work I had been doing on a loco. The loco has a Loksound 4 decoder which I had taken out while enhancing it and having completed that work I plugged it back in. To make sure all was OK I thought I would get RM to read the CVs as that is safer than applying track voltage. RM failed to read CVs so I removed the decoder and plugged it in to an ESU decoder tester. RM still failed to read CVs. Obviously I was concerned for the health of the expensive decoder so I tried with the loco that had been happiliy running a couple of days ago. I couldn't read CVs from that either. In exasperation I reconfigured RM to use just the eLink as Controller A and tried again. RM then happily read the CVs.

☹️

[Chrissaf]

Alan,

All I can suggest is going through the .INI file variations that I suggested in the second post down from the top of Page 6. Hopefully you will find a .INI file variation that provides 100% functionality. A working variation may not be one of the examples in my list, so I would do a paper exercise first to write down all the possible variations then work systematically through them one at a time and tick them off as tested. I appreciate that this is a lot of work and will take time.

.

But first thing first would be to prove that the Elite programming output is not broken. Use the Elite 'stand alone' to confirm that it can still read and write a CV. After all, you wouldn't want a faulty Elite to send you up the 'garden path' chasing a non existent issue in RM.

 

[Alan K]

Chris,

My next step will indeed be to try the Elite on its own as Controller A. Though the when I tried to program with both controllers connected the Elite did click and flash the red LED as it should and I did use the Elite with RM 1.69 a couple of months ago when I set the address and a couple of other CVs on the loco with the Loksound decoder before I removed the decoder to work on it.

 

To be honest I have lots of tasks to carry out on my railway and stock and am loathe to spend hours more on RM going through the combinations especially if the Elite proves to OK as apart from getting both controllers to connect it would be necessary to test functionality as well - oh and I'll also have a lounge and living room and extension to decorate as soon as the builders finish!!

 

So for the time being the easiest option would seem to be to bridge the track and accessory buses and use a single controller although that is a rather galling prospect as I am only just completing altering the wiring to connect all the points to the accessory bus.

[Alan K]

Update to the above.

It would appear that the Elite has conspired to compound the felony. It will no longer read CVs via RM nor  standalone in either Direct Mode on the programming track nor in operate mode on the main. Despire flashing lights and clicks it returns either 255 or XXX depending on mode. Significantly the LEDs on my decoder tester do not flicker as they should when reading or writing in Direct Mode.It was certatinly working just a few weeks ago.

My sole consolation today is that my loco does work perfectly well with its decoder reinstalled whether connected to eLink or Elite though I have yet to put RM back into dual controller mode. I suppose I could switch them so that I can program CVs via the eLink but that loses that possibility of using the knobs on the Elite to control trains.

[96RAF]

You can’t readback on the main, only write to a decoder.

 

Flashing leds and clicking relays on the Elite just means its going through the motions not that it is working.

 

The flashing leds on the ESU tester are an indication of activity or not down the wires.

[BagEndJct]

BEJ,

Go back to Page 1 of this thread. Fourth post down by "Trickymundo", regarding the .INI line "Reset eLink on start=n"

.

If you change this value to 0 (zero) [the default for this line is =1] then there is a probability that your eLink then won't power down as part of the RM start up routine. 

 

Chris

 

Yes, that worked! Thank you. I suspect it will also work for the Lenovo so I can set "Check Controller" back to 1! Thank you.

 

John

[Chrissaf]

Trickymundo reported the fix......I just have a knack for recalling what I have previously read.

.

But glad my memory could be of assistance on this occasion.

[Alan K]

RAF96

The Elite is supposed to be able to read on Main in Operate mode if the decoder is Railcom capable and it is enabled. My Loksound is capable and it is enabled. The function would logically not be available in Operate mode if it couldn't read in any circumstance. Anyway probably academic if the Elite has on a whim decided that will no longer read in Direct mode with the decoder in a decoder tester.

Alan

[96RAF]

RAF96

The Elite is supposed to be able to read on Main in Operate mode if the decoder is Railcom capable and it is enabled. My Loksound is capable and it is enabled. The function would logically not be available in Operate mode if it couldn't read in any circumstance. Anyway probably academic if the Elite has on a whim decided that will no longer read in Direct mode with the decoder in a decoder tester.

Alan

 

it is not unknown for the Elite to lose programming output. Some folk have reported that Hornby have repaired theirs, but I have not had much luck changing out the components most likely at fault.

Rob

[Chrissaf]

After all, you wouldn't want a faulty Elite to send you up the 'garden path' chasing a non existent issue in RM.

.

Alan,

Based upon your last couple of posts, it sounds as if you were sent up the path to the back of the garden.

.

As Rob, says there are quite a few posts on this forum regarding faulty 'Prog' outputs on the Elite. So maybe your RM config is OK after all.

.

Might be worth performing an Elite 'Factory Reset', Page 68 in the manual.

.

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[Alan K]

Rob,

I was hoping that even if the software is flakey the Elite hardware would be reliable but after expreiencing the current issue with the Elite I found reports of previous programming failures (including one by yourself) or even total output failures both within theses forums and elsewhere. Probably being over optimistic as I have previously had a defective eLink and a malfunctioning TTS decoder replaced.

Alan

[96RAF]

Rob,

I was hoping that even if the software is flakey the Elite hardware would be reliable but after expreiencing the current issue with the Elite I found reports of previous programming failures (including one by yourself) or even total output failures both within theses forums and elsewhere. Probably being over optimistic as I have previously had a defective eLink and a malfunctioning TTS decoder replaced.

Alan

 

To be fair most of my kit failures are due to pushing the envelope during testing or trialing updates. Not properly representative of the common user, in addition some Elites are fairly long in the tooth now, introduced circa 2006 and likely approaching life-ex.

[Alan K]

Chris,

I have already tried a factory reset to no avail. A couple of posts that I have found by others with similar programming issues report that it made no difference - may have worked for some but I have not actually found any reports of success. I note some reports that there is no voltage on the Elite outputs but mine has 15v+ on track and a very low voltage on prog that does change when the red LED flashes but so quickly that I can't read the value. Presumably an oscilloscope would give more info.....

As far as RM is concerned it will probably work with the settings as last used with the lack of programming being attributed to the Elite throwing a tantrum.

I may have to switch controllers so that I can program using the eLink though that is not the ideal arrangement. 

Presumably the .ini would need to be changed yet again...

 

Alternative comms=1        [for Controller A eLink 1.07]

Check controller=1

Alternative comms2=1      [for Controller B Elite v1.44]

Check controller2=0

[Alan K]

...in addition some Elites are fairly long in the tooth now, introduced circa 2006 and likely approaching life-ex.

Mine is only a couple of years old but they are unusually long lived for products in the technological world, Can't say I have heard any rumours of a replacement coming any time soon though....

[96RAF]

The Prog output is intermittent and only present when the Elite is sending, hence the relay click and led activity. Monitoring with a scope will show this on/off activity and give more accurate readings.

 

The output is as you say low potential with restricted current to protect a decoder against incorrect wiring, in accordance with NMRA rules and regs. The duration is probably too short to capture a reading on a digital meter. Some indication of if both channels of the mosfet H-bridge in the circuit are working can be seen on the pair of ‘track‘ power on the ESU tester.

 

Elite Prog output shares circuitry with the Boost output which is also low potential for use of any power district booster to make use of. You could monitor this output but be aware it may be out of phase with the Prog output so do not monitor or even attempt to connect both outputs on a common meter/scope.

 

New model in the pipeline - I’ve not heard anything either.

 

Rob

[Alan K]

Rob,

I don't have an oscilloscope and I'm certainly not going to invest in one just to prove to the n'th degree that the Elite has ceased to program. To be honest I am getting more than a little fed up with RM and Hornby controls in general. It's all taking up far too much of the limited time I have available that I should be spending on actual modelling - not to mention the frustration and stress. After all railway modelling is supposed to be an enjoyable hobby.

My wife is strongly of the opinion that I should have given up on it a while ago and dumped it. Big questions -what to replace it with? - how much would it cost? - how much time and effort to set it up?

The one advantage of RM etc is ostensibly that it is relatively simple to set up and operate - in practice there are quite a few foibles and it is unreliable. I gave up trying to use a second copy of RM on a Windows tablet PC - issues were raised years ago and I brought them up again a few months ago but nothing whatsoever has changed to my knowledge.