Booster problem?

[0b1kob]

Hello,

I,m trying to add a booster to my select controller, ( quite a large dc layout going over to dcc) but it throws up a CE fault on my select, I,m disconnect the track wires and pluging these into the side out put on the booster and connecting the main data lead into my select i do get the green and yellow light showing on the booster, however when i disconnect the booster and re connect the select no problems.

any ideas?

[96RAF]

If the booster unit is a Hornby item then connect it using Figure 4 in the instructions.

 

The logic of using a booster to power a separate district just repeats the DCC signal passed to it by the controller which is still powerng and commanding the prime district.

 

These power districts must be electrically separate each with their own power supply, linked only by the booster unit which acts purely as a DCC signal relay.

[Chrissaf]

First of all, the question 'Why are you adding a Booster?" needs to be understood.

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If you are adding a Booster because the standard Select power supply is only 1 amp. Then be aware that the easier option is just to replace the supplied 1 amp power supply with Hornby's own P9300 4 amp power supply. Hornby's P9300 Product page specifically states that this power supply is compatible with the Select. A P9300 power supply is the power supply that is supplied as standard with the Hornby R8239 Booster.

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Now reading your query. If I have understood it correctly. You are connecting the Select and the Booster together as per the diagram below:

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This is not the intended connection method, although in theory it should work. But as stated previously. The Select is compatible with the 4 Amp power supply. So the best, most technically efficient option would be to leave the R8239 Booster in its retail shipping box and just use the Booster supplied P9300 Power Supply as a direct replacement for the Select supplied 1 amp power supply. That gives you the 4 amp power you want but without all the added complexity.

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If the reason for adding a supplementary Booster is because you have already upgraded the Select power supply to 4 amps but your layout is large enough to warrant needing current capacity higher than 4 amps. Then read on below.

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There will be some on here that will question whether your layout is large enough to warrant the inclusion of a Booster. It is only useful if you want to run more than about ten locomotives on the layout at the same time, but note comment number 3 in my list further below.

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The best way to connect the Hornby R8239 Booster or any booster when using a Hornby controller is as per the diagram below. It is best not to use the Expressnet low level interface to make the connection to the controller:

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Note the following comments.

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1. You MUST separate your existing layout into electrically isolated 'Power Districts'. There must not be any PERMANENT direct electrical connection between the output of the Select and the output of the Booster. The Booster electronics can handle the brief intermittent connections between the Power Districts that are created as rolling stock metal wheels bridge the Insulated Rail joiner joints.
2. A Booster does NOT aggregate the current. That is to say, the Select power supply output (assuming it has the 4 amp upgrade) does not aggregate to the Booster 4 amp supply to give a total of 8 amps distributed across the whole contiguous layout.
3. The layout must be separated into multiple Power Districts with Insulated Rail Joiners at every location where track route connections are made between them, each power district only has a maximum of 4 amps available to it. If all the trains at some time all reside in one or other of those districts then a situation could arise where they are collectively trying to draw more than 4 amps and will overload trip the Booster or Select. Thus the creation of the Power District layout design needs to be carefully thought through.

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IMPORTANT PLEASE READ: As your layout is/was Analogue DC then it will have used DC Analogue power tracks / power clips. These contain suppression capacitors. These capacitors are not compatible with Digital DCC operation and must be removed or the power track / power clips replaced with DCC versions R8241 & R8242. The removal of the capacitors is an easy task....see image below:

 

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TIP: As this is your very first post, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button

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Particularly as my reply includes an image. If you use the blue button, any reply you write, may be held back for image approval. Even though it is already a previously published image.

 

 

[0b1kob]

Hello, First thanks for your replys,

Yes your right its all Hornby, i don,t have power clips as the wiring was solder direct to the under side of the rails and not visible, I have 3 main lines each approxmatley 45 feet in lengh plus passing loops , sidings engine sheds, 25 turn outs etc. alot of gradants which require double heading, I generally run  6 to 10 locos at the same time. I havn;t fitted any point clips at the moment so Im able to isolate the main lines by way of the points/turn outs.

I have digested all you have said and thanks to RAF96 figure 4 works with a few glitches although im still confuse why theres a data transfer lead (Xpress) but no worries i can work without it.

Hello Chrissef, Thanks for the info you have added I will try pluging the power booster PSU unit direct into the Select although common logic says it will burn it out but this would awnswer the problem for a while. I take on board your comments about power district overload i can see the need for perhaps two more boosters. i shouldn't say this being an ex British rail Guard(1970) I find myself liking early continantly electric locos which i have quite a few these seem to draw the amps they also take quit a bit of converting.

Thanks Guys

[96RAF]

The Xpressnet cable is best used for slaving another Select to the Master unit, which can be a Select or an Elite.

If the wrong cable is used (seeforum discussion about Booster cable versus Walkabout cable) then it can disrupt the DCC signal. Hornby initially used one cable, found errors, and went to the current cables configuration for each purpose.

There is no fear using the 4 amp supply. The 1 amp supply protects by dropping voltage within the PSU, causng the Select to reboot until the load falls below trigger pevel.  The Select is set to protect internally at 4-amps in event of short or overload.

[Chrissaf]

You cannot rely just on the points to isolate power districts. You must use Insulated Rail Joiners. Sooner or later you will need to operate points to create a route between two power districts. At which time you will create a direct contact between the outputs of the Select and the Booster.

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The 4 amp power supply is designed to work with the Select. In fact the Select works better with the 4 amp supply than it does with the supplied 1 amp supply.

[Fishmanoz]

Given you must take your layout apart to the extent that you can fit the necessary IRJs, and given you feel you may need more than 2 power districts, might I suggest that you design it to be split into 4 power districts and fit all the IRJs needed for that.  However, now join 2 lots of 2 districts together connecting one pair to the Select and the other pair to the booster.  

 

Operate like that for a while and see if you experience overload cutouts during normal operation in the Select or the booster district.  If you do, then buy another booster and split the overloading pair, again connecting the new booster input to Select track power, and the output to the new district.  

 

If you don’t get overloads in one or both paired districts, then you have saved yourself some money and complexity.

[0b1kob]

Hello Fishmanoz,

Thanks for the input yes a good idea just build my way through it.

Thanks.