train-tech sc3

[zeroOneman]

hi guys,

i've just purchased a couple of Dapol semaphores & a Train-tech SC3 module. Now i've got as far as trying to program the SC3 - nothing in the menu, would I be right in thinking I need the pro-pack to do this?

[Chrissaf]

I have just had a brief quick read of the SC3 user guide manual. I can see nothing in it that warrants using RailMaster-ProPack.

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RailMaster-ProPack is a requirement for TrainTech lamp based signals that operate in 3 and/or 4 aspect. RailMaster 'Standard Edition' inherently supports 'dual aspect' signals.

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Now since the SC3 decoder is controlling Dapol Semaphore signals, semaphore signals (unless someone corrects me for my ignorance) only have two aspects.....danger and clear.

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.....nothing in the menu....

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No there won't be. These SC3 decoders (according to the manual......extract copied below) are 'self learning' decoders. So you do not program them using the RailMaster Accessory Decoder programming screen.

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Yellow highlight in image on the right just used to confirm the termination connections for the Dapol Semaphore Signal yellow operating wires. The reference to 'yellow' in the TrainTech instruction relate to wire colours and not signal lamp colours. I mention this, as the nuance of the decoder terminal labelling initially threw me

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Basically, you place a 'semaphore' signal icon on your track plan in the 'track design screen'. Right click it....then give the signal the DCC address you want to use. In the 'pull down' choose decoder box....I suggest you choose the Hornby R8247 option.

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Since the SC3 is a dual port decoder, and as you have two Dapol signals to configure, place a second Semaphore signal icon on your track plan and give that one a different address to use relative to the first one.

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Now save your track plan and load it into RailMaster as your main normal screen.

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Connect your SC3 decoder to your main track DCC connection (not the Prog Track). Press the learn button once for setting the address of the signal attached to port 1, or press the learn button twice to set the address of the second signal attached to port 2 of the decoder.

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Setting the address for port 1 signal. Having pressed the decoder 'learn' button once, then from the appropriate signal (port 1) icon on your track plan, send an operate command....then repeat for the other (port 2) signal, having first pressed the decoder 'learn' button twice to set port 2 in learn mode. Sending an operate command, basically just means clicking the Semaphore signal icon on the track plan screen.

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Note the reference to LED flashing in the SC3 manual to denote configuration success status.

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Job done.

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Postscript.

One thing that comes up a lot on the forum, relates to Dapol Semaphore signal synchronisation with the RM track plan icon position indicator. That is to say, the icon shows the signal arm position opposite to the physical signal. This can occur because Dapol Semaphore signals operate as a 'Toggle'. The two yellow wires that operate the signal do so by having a metallic loop placed across the two yellow wires. Each time the two yellow wires are sequentially looped (toggled) the signal changes.

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The easiest way to synchronise signals that get out of kilter with the RM track plan is to briefly touch a loop (say a paper clip) across the appropriate yellow wire terminals on the decoder, so that the signal position changes to match that shown on the RM track plan icon. If you find the signals lose sync far too often, then you might consider permanently wiring a remotely located 'push to make' button in a panel wired across the two yellow wires for each signal on the layout.

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It might be prudent to check with Train-Tech that putting a short circuit across the 'yellow wire' terminals on the SC3 decoder won't harm it. This shouldn't be a problem if the SC3 uses on-board relays to provide the trigger condition as opposed to a semi-conductor output solution. If Train-Tech say that a short circuit on the yellow wire terminals will damage the SC3 decoder, then this switch circuit will resolve the issue.

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This is not helped if in RM 'Double Pulse' is enabled in the 'railmaster.ini' file to send two sequential Accessory Decoder pulses. This default RM configuration option is fine for solenoid points as they have a 'turn left' and 'turn right' command. But because the Dapol Semaphore works on the basis of a 'toggle' the first pulse with some types of Accessory Decoders will operate the signal, then the RM instigated second pulse comes along to switch the signal back again.

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Now there is a possibility that the software in the SC3 decoder is clever enough to handle this 'double pulse'. The SC3 instructions in 'Panel 3' does indicate that Train Tech have been clever enough in the SC3 software to synchronise the Dapol Semaphore signal position to the DCC controller 'switch left' and 'switch right' commands. This synchronisation could possibly eliminate the RM 'Double Pulse' as an issue.

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But if you do see this switching behaviour, that is to say the signal switches then one or two seconds later switches back again. You will have to open the 'railmaster.ini' file editor and amend the 'Double pulse=1" entry to =0

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The 'railmaster.ini' file editor is opened by clicking the blue grey COG icon you will find in the bottom left of the RM ' Help / About' screen.

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My instructions are just in principle and are based upon my interpretation of the SC3 manual. I have only 'speed read' the manual for the basics to point you in the right direction. You might need to read and follow the manual in a bit more detail compared to what I have done.

[zeroOneman]

Thanks Chris - you're a genius. Play time is over for today, I'm hoping SWMBO will let me try this out tomorrow evening. I'm away all next week, but will post back here just as soon as I've got them working.

Andy

[Chrissaf]

I'll only claim to be a genius, if my instructions work for you. Note that I have performed several last minute edits to my reply since your last page visit timestamp.

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EDIT: I have since added a 'Postscript' level of detail to my original reply with important additional configuration & operational information that you might find useful.

 

[TrainTech]

Hi from David of Train-Tech

Chris has given a great and comprehensive reply and I could not beat that! Basically all of our DCC products work by Learning rather than CV commands, so once the Learn button is pressed all they do is 'listen' for the next DCC accessory command to know what address they are to be assigned. So you can use a standard signal on an accessory address you set within Railmaster and your SC3 will learn and then change with that address. 

Thanks to moderator Rob for alerting us to your query. Forums are wonderful places to share queries, ideas and experiences but it is difficult for manufacturers to be on top of all of them, so if you ever need specific support on a Train-Tech product you can always contact us by the email address on our instructions or packaging - we always try to reply within 1 working day.

[zeroOneman]

Ok Chris - you are now officially a genius ! Everything worked just as expected.

There doesn't seem to be any problem with double pulses - the position always matches what is on the screen. I tried double clicking the icon - the icon went up then down... the signal went up, then a second later went down again.

There are currently 2-aspect signals in the positions that these will go & they are linked to braking modules. My intention is to remove the signals, but leave the modules 

[Chrissaf]

Glad to hear that you're a happy bunny......

[Chrissaf]

One final jigsaw piece in the puzzle. Here is an example of a SPDT momentary action push button switch. Five for £2.99 including delivery......works out at 60p each.

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'Momentary' means that the contacts do not 'lock on' and only 'break & make' for the duration that the push button is pressed.

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C = Common = goes to Dapol signal top yellow in my drawing.

NC = Normally Closed = goes to SC3 top yellow on my drawing.

NO = Normally Open = goes to SC3 / Dapol signal bottom yellow on my drawing.

[96RAF]

As David of TT says if you have ongoing problems then contact him direct via their website.

 

TT supply samples of their kit to HRMS to allow integration Into the application, e.g. sensor signals, so if you cannot see it supported yet then get onto HRMS and ask them why not.

[TrainTech]

Hi again, just to pick up on one point in Chris' original response "It might be prudent to check with Train-Tech that putting a short circuit across the 'yellow wire' terminals on the SC3 decoder won't harm it"

We use Solid state relays inside the SC3/300 to switch the Dapol yellow wires but these are voltage free and so you can quite safely short the yellow wires to resynchronise the Dapol signal.

I hope that clarifies.

Regards

David - Train-Tech

[96RAF]

Thanks David.

Folk can be confident using your devices with such excellent support.

[BagEndJct]

Just a quickie from a Dapol semaphor user. Yes, the signals to get out of "sync" with the display on the layout diagram.

 

I usually solve this by ticking "reverse polarity" in the layout signal setup box. For my creaking old body, a lot easier than crawling around under my board from whence I may never return! For some reason, the "out of sync" situation usually clears itself (I've never fathomed out under what circumstances) when I merely untick the reverse polarity box.

[Chrissaf]

BEJ,

That's precisely why I suggest, nay may I say recommend, the inclusion of the remotely located in a panel 'push button' Dapol signal synchronisation switch. Once installed, it saves having to crawl about under the layout, and more importantly it is a darn sight quicker than faffing about opening the RM track plan and changing signal configuration dialogue boxes.

[zeroOneman]

Thank you Chris & David for all your help - we're up and running - in the following clip the BM1 holds the train at the signal until it clears.

I'm a very happy chappy.

 

[Chrissaf]

Glad to have been of assistance....