Issue with R8014 point motor to R8247 decoder

[seabass41]

Hi

I have bought a couple of R8014 Point Motors, and am trying (and failing) to get them to work.

I have an R8247 Decoder and a Select Controller. I am running the wires into the Decoder from the Point Controller as outlined in other forum posts - but when I try to get something to happen from my Controller - nothing at all. I programmed the Decoder at address 61, as outlined in the manual. The Controller red LED flashed 4 times, so I'm assuming that the Controller has programmed the Decoder, but the point motor remains lifeless.

Any help appreciated.

[96RAF]

The revision state of your Select may be important so look at startup to see what the first pair of numbers is 10 to 16 and tell us what it is. Make sure you are using the correct manual for the version.

 

First make sure there is nothing wired to the Select Track terminals except the R8247 point and accessory decoder. Match Track A-B on both devices. If your layout is wired to the Select then simply disconnect it for now or you will be attempting to program everything on track.

 

Wire a single R8014 solenoid to port 1 of the R8247. Move the solenoid pin to the mid position by hand then when you program the R8247 it will throw the solenoid and you will hear and see it happen, proving the address has taken.

 

As address 61 doesn’t seem to have worked try the equivalent Group Address which from memory is 16 (integer of 61 / 4 + 1). Select will work out what you are doing and the R8247 will take that address and allocate 61-64 to ports 1-4.

 

Let us know how you get on.

[Chrissaf]

If you have any LEDs in your 'bits and pieces' box (any type & any colour). Then wire the positive side of a LED (the longer lead of the LED) via a resistor (any value between 470 Ohms and 1,000 Ohms) to the R8247 C (Common) terminal for port 1. Then wire the negative side of the LED first to the R8247 " - " port 1 terminal. Now use the Select to try and operate address 61 in both directions. Does the LED briefly flash when operating one or other of the directions (note that it won't flash when operating both directions). If it doesn't, then either address 61 is not correctly configured or something is faulty. Repeat the test with the negative side of the LED wired to the R8247 " + " terminal and the other direction relative to the first test above should flash (Note: + & - does not mean positive & negative. Both these R8247 terminals produce negative voltage pulses relative to the positive C terminal).

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When performing the above test, have the R8247 as the only device directly connected to the Select 'Track A&B' output. If the above test is successful, then repeat the test on R8247 ports 2, 3 and 4 using DCC addresses 62, 63 & 64 respectively.

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The reason for using an LED as opposed to a Digital multi-meter set to measure DC volts, is because the meter's measuring latency is too great to measure a 100 millisecond pulse. There is no such latency issue using a LED.

[Flashbang]

Isn't it time Hornby (and some other decoder manufacturers too) stopped using the ridiculous and meaningless + and - marking on accessory decoder outputs? The best methods would be to use "1A", "1B" and "1C" or possibly "Out1A", "Out1B" and "C1" per group and increment for each of the remaining output groups. e.g. Output group 2 would be "2A", "2B" and "2C" or alternatively "Out2A", "Out2B" and "C2". and so on.

+ and - infers the polarity will be that,  when in fact its Negative on both regardless of which way the output is set to. 

Come on Hornby wake up and have all new batches better and more logically labelled!  😉

[96RAF]

<  +  > would also make more sense.

[seabass41]

Thank you everybody for your replies. My Select shows '10' when it starts up - which I assume means Firmware v 1.0

[96RAF]

Correct. 10 = v1.0.

You will have to program your first point address as 60 not 61 in that case. Check the original manual. See here http://www.halton96th.org.uk/dcc-downloads.html

Scroll down to the Select area.

 

If it had been at v1.1 (11) then you must not use it with R8247 as there is a bug in the Select firmware only at v1.1 that can damage the accessory decoder. Once the Select is updated it is all OK.

See here for more info... http://www.halton96th.org.uk/page16.html

Scroll down the page to Known Faults.

 

Edited to correct Select version number ... oops .. and hyperlinks.

[Flashbang]

My Select shows '10' when it starts up - which I assume means Firmware v 1.0

Gosh, if it is that old and out of date I would seriously consider arranging to have it upgraded by Hornby.  You will need to arrange a returns number, then send it to Hornby for upgrading to V1.6, but it will be well worth the effort. Cost... Around £15 GBP 

[96RAF]

Incorrect statement...

Wire a single R8014 solenoid to port 1 of the R8247. Move the solenoid pin to the mid position by hand then when you program the R8247 it will throw the solenoid and you will hear and see it happen, proving the address has taken.

 

Correction:

From my notes...

When the Point and Accessory Decoder (PAD) successfully programs it usually activates channel 4 of the Point Decoder. This behaviour can be used as an indicator that programming has been successful. Connect a Point motor to the fourth channel output of the Point Decoder.

 

My apologies for any confusion caused.

Rob

 

[seabass41]

Thank you everybody for your help. I have taken your advice and now have the point motors working nicely.

And yes, I should get my Select firmware updated!

Thanks again.

[Chrissaf]

For the benefit of the members who contributed suggestions to your problem and those who might be reading this thread in the future with a similar problem looking for an answer. Can you please tell us what you did to correct the issue.

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Thank you

[seabass41]

For the benefit of the members who contributed suggestions to your problem and those who might be reading this thread in the future with a similar problem looking for an answer. Can you please tell us what you did to correct the issue.

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Thank you

After much fiddling, I believe that the issue was that I was trying to set the initial function address at 61, as per the manual that comes with the R8247 Decoder. As my Select Controller is Firmware v1.0 - the function address should have been set at 60. To be fair, the manual for my Select does state that - I was going off the Decoder manual - lesson learned!

[Chrissaf]

Thank you.

.

Just be aware that if you do upgrade your Select firmware to the current level. Something that you might need to do when and if other currently undiscovered control issues arise due to your firmware being the original 1.0 release. Then the later firmware will most likely need you to re-assign your decoder addresses to start at 61.

[seabass41]

Thank you.

.

Just be aware that if you do upgrade your Select firmware to the current level. Something that you might need to do when and if other currently undiscovered control issues arise due to your firmware being the original 1.0 release. Then the later firmware will most likely need you to re-assign your decoder addresses to start at 61.

Understood, thank you!