Double Slip Wiring for Dummies

[Captain_Francisco.]

  Good afternoon all. I have two "Peco code 100 insulfrog Double Slips" that I would like to utilise initially in a DC layout, with a subsequent change to DCC in the offing. Can anybody supply me with the requisite wiring diagrams, or direct me to sites that would approximate to "Wiring insulfrog DC  Double Slips for Dummies" & "Wiring insulfrog DCC Double Slips for Dummies?" I don't get the diagram in the "Peco" instructions. My exposure to DPDT switches is "live" & "neutral" to the centre pins, and then "On - Off - On" switching for direction change. Thanking all in advance.

[96RAF]

Scroll way down this page to wiring double slip (dc or dcc)

https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical_Page_3.html

[Captain_Francisco.]

Wonderful! Thank you.

[Chrissaf]

Capt'n.....I think you find my reply a little easier to follow than the information on the link Rob provided. It took me a little longer than Rob to formulate my reply as I had to dig out and scan the PECO Wiring diagrams from my library.

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It would have saved me a lot of time if you had specified the point you are querying by using the PECO stock code. As I had to spend some time researching that too.

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The only PECO Double Slip using Code 100 rails that I can find is the PECO SL-90. This is an Insulfrog Double Slip point.

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From your text description regarding the 'Wiring Diagram' it sounds as if you are referring to the "PECO Wiring The Layout Part 3 booklet 21" publication. I have scanned and added pages 14 & 15 from this publication below. Can you confirm whether these are the wiring diagrams you are referring to. If not, what PECO booklet title and page number are you looking at.

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On the basis that my deductions are correct, and the above image represents the wiring diagram you are querying. Then the need to add a DPDT switch (for DC Analogue control) only applies when multiple DC Analogue controllers are deployed and the Double Slip Point is going to service two different routes with a DC Analogue controller on each route. This is indicated by the use of colours in Fig 36. If both routes through the pointwork will always be under the control of a single DC Analogue controller, then the DPDT switching and the Insluated Rail Joiners (IRJs) is not required and the Double Slip Point can be used straight out of the box 'as is' without modification.

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OK I shall try an explain what information Fig 36 is trying to convey.

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This Fig is using four colours. Orange & Green is for Controller 1 (left hand controller). Notice how the tracks running from the 10 o'clock to the 4 o'clock position are also using these two colours on the non crossing side of the Insulated Rail Joiners (IRJs).

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The rails with the Red & Blue colours represent Controller 2 (right hand controller). Note the yellow double ended arrow running from the 8 o'clock point position to the 2 o'clock point position. This yellow arrow represents that the point is switched to provide that path through the pointwork.

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Now because the points are switched to create the 8 to 2 o'clock route. The DPDT switch is also switched to power the track rails to support that route. Hence why the rails in the middle of the Double Slip Point (between the confines of the IRJs) are also coloured Red & Blue. See how the Red & Blue switch contacts confirm that Controller 2 (Red & Blue) is connected to the centre rails.

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So, any loco that is travelling on the Red & Blue track and controlled by Controller 2, now automatically picks up the Controller 2 power as it traverses the point. The power on these centre of point rails are electrically isolated from the rest of the layout by the surrounding IRJs.

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Now consider a loco that is on the Orange & Green track and is being controlled by Controller 1. As this loco approaches the point, the DPDT switch needs to be thrown into the other position. Thus the red rails in the middle of the point will become Orange and the Blue rails in the middle of the point will become Green. This then means that a loco travelling in the 10 to 4 o'clock (Orange / Green) route then picks the Orange & Green controller 1 power as the loco traverses the point.

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The DPDT throw switch in the position has six terminals. Nearly all DPDT switches have the same physical arrangement. The centre switch tags are the common levers (indicated by the Red & Blue lines with the little arrow heads on them in Fig 36). The outer tags then become the changeover contacts that select which circuit the DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw = Double Pole Change-over) is connected to.

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Now, briefly turning to Fig 37A for DCC Operation this Fig is only applicable when using Electrofrog Double Slip Points. It has no relevance when using the Insulfrog Double Slip Point such as the SL-90. Note that PECO do not currently produce an Electrofrog Double Slip Point in Code 100 rails, which is why I am reasonably sure that you are using the SL-90 Double Slip Point

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However, that said. The Fig 36 drawing would also still form the basis of DCC Operation.

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Let me explain.

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In DCC operation there is a single controller and a single DCC power supply to the track (all the track) let us assume that all track power is Red & Blue. Thus the short rails shown as Orange in Fig 36 become Red rails and all the short rails shown in Fig 36 as Green become Blue rails. Now you can see that regardless of which route the locomotive takes through the point. A Red rail always connects to another Red rail and a Blue rail always connects to another blue.

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Therefore the only modification needed to convert the point from DC to DCC operation is to remove the DPDT switch and the IRJs. This is probably why the PECO Wiring Booklet did not cover that exact configuration (i.e SL-90 with DCC) in it, because the SL-90 product is, in essence, DCC friendly out of the box.

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Alternatively, if lifting the point to replace the IRJs with normal metal ones is an issue. Then just connect the Red & Blue wires that go to the DPDT Common terminals to the DCC track supply. Get those connections the wrong way round and you will get a short circuit when rolling stock traverses the point.

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[Captain_Francisco.]

Thank you Chrissaf. I confirm that they are "PECO Code 100 SL-90 Insulfrog Double Slip Points." I must offer my humble apologies; the "Peco" instructions I was referring to are from the insert leaflet included in the box, not a "Peco" booklet. However, thank you enormously for the explanation & diagrams; as always, absolutely pertinent and easy to follow & digest. I understand the issue now, and your explanation has helped me make sense of the black & white diagram in the leaflet. It all seems so logical now, again, many many thanks.

[Chrissaf]

I couldn't find any online instruction sheets on the PECO website (obviously the printed instruction sheet documentation is only included physically with the product). Since you say it was B&W, then I can understand why it might not have made clear sense. The colour coding makes all the difference. It was pure luck on my part that I had the PECO booklets to refer too.

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Just out of curiosity, were the colour diagrams above a close match to the DPDT switch & wiring connectivity shown in your B&W version?

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[Captain_Francisco.]

Affirmative, but with more detail. The leaflet shows 6 wires and an elongated "X", (actually resembles a "crossing" and looks nothing like a "double slip.") no "traffic variables," or "current effects" on the rails for the different scenarios. Your depiction of the power distribution in the "diamond" during different evolutions I found illuminating. As I said, thanks again; for perfectly clear and logical explanation above.

[Thirlmere]

I have a double slip with motor attached. Two black & 1 Red wires. What I want to know is which goes where & which switch do I use. On-Off-On ?  also do I need insulated railjoiners on all tracks.

[Chrissaf]

I have a double slip with motor attached. Two black & 1 Red wires. What I want to know is which goes where & which switch do I use. On-Off-On ?

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Not enough detail in the information.

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• What motor brand & model?
• Is this switch going to be a manual switch you throw or a switch attached to the point motor that throws automatically?
• Your text infers a single motor.....do you mean two motors?

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The current April 2020 issue of BRM Magazine has a four page spread on wiring Double Slips showing a different wiring diagram for each of the different point motor types and switching arrangements.

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A digital version of the April 2020 BRM Magazine can be downloaded from here for a one-off charge of £4.99 [this link will obviously time-out in a few weeks time as and when the next issue becomes current].

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Also, the PECO point wiring booklet described in my earlier reply, can be ordered direct from PECO for £1 and is still available.

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PECO Wiring The Layout Part 3 booklet 21

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...also do I need insulated rail joiners on all tracks.

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Yes....see the image in my earlier reply.

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Read and digest my earlier full reply to the original poster (4th post down on this page). It should provide you with all the information you need. You can expand the images to full size by 'right clicking' the image and choosing one of the suitable options in the 'context sensitive' pop-up menu...... for example 'View Image' if that option is available in your browser.

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TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[96RAF]

Fortunately I saved those pages for reference. I will post (or not) after checking with BRM it doesn’t break any copyright rules.

[96RAF]

Thirlmere

I have just heard back from BRM and although I cannot post the information from the magazine on this forum, they have sent me a PDF file of the associated pages and said that I can let you have those by way of direct contact.

 

As this forum doesn’t have personal messaging if you contact me from the contact page of my signature linked website I can send you the document.

Rob

[96RAF]

Bumping this post once in the hope Thirlmere sees it and replies, else I have wasted my time sorting out the information requested.

[96RAF]

Bumped for the last time.

Next time I will not be putting so much effort into getting external information and approvals.

[Flashbang]

Peco code 100 SL-90 double slip is an INSULATED FROG point. It needs no additional work whether on DC or DCC where one controller is to feed all tracks passing over the DS.  To improve conductivity, rail feeds from the controller or DCC system can be connected additionally to the outer two stock rails.  

Where two DC controllers are used to feed tracks approaching and after the slip then insulated rail joiners (IRJs) are used on all eight DS rail ends and the two outer stock rails are then fed via a DPDT switch which selects Controller 1. or Controller 2 to feed the whole DS out to all its IRJs.

 

Its that simple!   No need for information to be given about Electrofrog points as ChrissAF posted four from the beginning or the need to make comments about anyone's web site information either.  Replies should be kept accurate and relate to the item/question, not something else and they should be short and simple to understand, which avoids any confusion. 

[Flashbang]

My above post refers to the OP post nearly a year ago (2019) which I've only just come across, as it was resurrected by another question being asked, but that needs far more detail to be able to answer it.  

Of interest to those who were puzzled by the reference originally to a black and white drawing, this is the one from Peco that's included in with their SL-90  Double Slip...

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