My Somerset Belle does not run

[Live Wire Cox]

Hi,

My train has been running ok til today when I have connected up my 4 points to a Hornby Digital 4 port Controller. 

The points are assigned to 61,62,63 and 64 on the Select Unit. They all work ok.

I place the train on the track, it is assigned to 03 on the Select Unit, and turn the throttle clockwise to full nothing happens, train does not move at all.

Please help, thank you

Live Wire Cox aka Sasha

[Chrissaf]

Since there seems to be some correlation between you installing the Hornby Digital 4 port Accessory Decoder (R8247 ??) and the loco now not running. Then maybe something you did when connecting the Accessory Decoder dislodged the wiring connection to the track.

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Can you explain, exactly how you have wired in the point decoder and maintained the Select to track connection at the same time?

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TIP: As this is your very first post, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

[96RAF]

What version number is your Select - first two numbers on startup, followed by 30 then 03.

 

Does the loco run if you apply a 9v block battery across the whyeels (turn it upside down).

[Live Wire Cox]

Hi, 

The Select Unit was connected to the track via a straight rail that has a connector built into the rail, (it came with the set) but with the power off with the train was on the track.

The 4 port Point unit I connected to the track using a guage power connecting clip. I assigned each point seperately starting with 61 then disconnecting those wires from port 1 and connecting point 62 to port 2 and assigning that one then disconnecting that one and did the final 2 the same way. Points all work using the Select. The point decoder is a R8247 

Select version is 15 - 30 03 I do not have a 9v block battery

Thank you both

[Chrissaf]

Since you say the points are working, then what I am about to say is of no consequence. But just for info.....it is not necessary to assign the addresses of the four ports individually.

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When you set up port 1 as 61, the other three ports are automatically assigned as ports 62 to 64 without any further interaction.

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So do I assume that when you assigned the address to the R8247 you had it connected the way you describe. Can I also assume that you didn't take the locomotive off of the track whilst you set the address of the R8247.

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If both those assumptions are correct, then by leaving the locomotive on the track. You have most likely corrupted the configuration of the locomotive decoder when you performed the R8247 addressing activity.

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With the Select controller. You must ONLY have the device that you are configuring attached to it.

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If this is indeed what you have done. This may or may not be recoverable.

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Your Select firmware is version 1.5. If it had been version 1.6 I would have advised you to write 8 to CV8 to reset the locomotive decoder back to the factory default address 03. But since version 1.5 can't do this, you will have to try this instead.

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First, you must disconnect the R8247 from the track. So that you do not corrupt that when trying to perform the fix.

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You originally had the loco still in its default factory configuration with DCC address 03. Since you have got to go through the motion of re-assigning the locomotive decoder address, then you might as well set a different address. So that the default address 03 is left spare for any future 'DCC fitted' loco purchases you make.

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I suggest you set the loco decoder to address 10.

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Below is an extract (page 9) from the Select 1.5 manual.

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/media/tinymce_upload/ccbc306775a080ccf7d51f29e79c3c76.jpg

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Note the yellow highlight that says only the loco being programmed must be on the track and all Accessory Decoders disconnected.

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Follow the five steps in the image above, but with the following exceptions:

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At step 3 in the image above....press the 1 key followed by the 0 key

Where the steps in the image above say 01....these should now read 10.

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If this works, then the loco should now be configured as loco address 10.

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To test this address is working.

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If 10 is not showing on the Select display. Then press the 1 and the 0 until you do see 10 in the display.

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Short press the 'Select' key on the controller. This should assign loco address 10 to the control knob.

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Turn the controller knob, the loco should move.

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If the loco now responds to the control movement commands, then your issue is fixed and you can reconnect the previously disconnected R8247 Accessory Decoder and thank yourself lucky.

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Remember, that the Select initially powers up to control loco address 03. So from now on (when the Select display shows 03 or any other number) you will have to key in 10 followed by 'Select' before you can move the loco.

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As you add locos to your collection, then use the procedure above to change their factory default 03 address to a new unique one. I suggest the next one should be 11 and the one after that 12 etc. Remember, loco addresses using the Select must be in the range 01 to 59. Remember to disconnect the R8247 Accessory Decoder(s) each time you need to do this.

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In fact, it is just easier to have a completely separate piece of track put aside for programming. Disconnect the main track from the Select, and connect this separate programming track piece instead each time you want to configure a loco. That way you won't need to keep disconnecting the R8247 Accessory Decoder(s) or remove other locos from the track.

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If trying to re-address the loco as 10 fails to fix your issue, it may be that the decoder has been corrupted more badly than a simple readdress can fix. In which case you would need to perform a factory reset by writing a value of 8 to CV8. However, this is not possible with your version 1.5 Select firmware. Your options therefore are:

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Find a friend or shop with a capable controller that can perform the factory reset for you.

OR

Send your Select off to Hornby to have the firmware upgraded to version 1.6

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Since you already have version 1.5 installed, then your Select must be fairly recent. Hornby may do the 1.6 upgrade 'free of charge'. If not, it is typically a one off £15 charge plus your postage costs to send the Select to Hornby. If you need to pursue this option, you need to contact Hornby to obtain a 'Returns Number'. See the 'Contact Us' link at the bottom of the web page.

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PS - By block battery, Rob means a PP3 9 volt battery.

/media/tinymce_upload/4525624228322d033f0562f9c69f8615.jpg

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Using a 9 volt battery (needs to be a fully charged brand new one). This is a fairly standard way to confirm that power is getting through the wheel pickups and decoder to reach the motor. If the wheels turn, then one can be reasonably sure that the loco is in working order. You hold the loco upside down in your hand and apply the battery terminals across the wheels. Alternatively, and perhaps a better option, is to place the loco on a short piece of spare track that is not connected to anything and place the battery terminals across the two rails. Do not do this on the main track with the controller and other devices still attached.

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As you have used up your initial 2 newbie posts, you won't be able to reply again until tomorrow. But that should give you time to try my documented suggestions.

[jane1707819582]

Hi, 

The Select Unit was connected to the track via a straight rail that has a connector built into the rail, (it came with the set) but with the power off with the train was on the track.

The 4 port Point unit I connected to the track using a guage power connecting clip. I assigned each point seperately starting with 61 then disconnecting those wires from port 1 and connecting point 62 to port 2 and assigning that one then disconnecting that one and did the final 2 the same way. Points all work using the Select. The point decoder is a R8247 

Select version is 15 - 30 03 I do not have a 9v block battery

Thank you both

was the loco on the track at the time of programming?

try re-programming the loco but remember to disconnect the points decoder .

[96RAF]

It is, as others have said, likely that the loco could now be on any address 61 through 64, which of course the Select cannot control. Nor can you at Select v1.5 reset the decoder, but you can still readdress the loco to any valid address 1 to 59 using the normal procedure in the latest manual.

[Live Wire Cox]

Thank you Chrissaf and RAF96 you have both been most helpful to Ms Newbie. It was the problem linked to leaving the train on the track. I have successfully assigned the train to No 10 as suggested, works fine.

Sometimes very occassionally the train slows down without altering the select throttle and stops then takes ages to get back up to speed again, crawling along and a bit juddery, then all of a sudden it starts to fly again. The track is fine with no gaps and all connections are good, track is very new and clean with a cleaning rubber block.

Any ideas would be most helpfull.

Thank you again

Ms Sasha Cox

[96RAF]

If you have a multi-meter then put it on the AC Voltage scale and take comparitive readings rail to rail around the track.

 

You will not get an accurate true DCC value but it is any variance we are looking for around the track, which will indicate poor continuity, likely due to slack fishplates (track section joiners).

 

The runaway you are seeing is common and due to the DCC signal being degraded so the decoder in the loco sees it as DC voltage and as this is always the full voltage seen on your meter off it goes at full speed until it gets a sensible DCC signal again when it starts to behave itself again. DC running can be turned off by a Select at v1.6 but not at v1.5.

 

Edit - as Chris says below - track cleanliness is essential. If you think it is clean then rub a tissue around the track and see the muck that is there on supposedly clean rails.

 

 

[Chrissaf]

......crawling along and a bit juddery, then all of a sudden it starts to fly again..............track is very new and clean with a cleaning rubber block.

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Basically you need to do more of the same as you have done already. DCC is extremely sensitive to dirt, grime and tarnish (chemical oxidation). So not only track, but the wheels and wheel pickup areas on the rear of the wheels need careful cleaning too. But be very careful not to bend or damage the actual pickups themselves as they are very delicate.

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Rather than a track rubber (which should only be used occasionally, as it is after all an abrasive). A chemical cleaning fluid such as IPA (IsoPropyl Alcohol) with lint free cloth for the rails and cotton buds for the wheels can remove dirt and grime that a rubber leaves behind.

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If your track is loose laid (put away at the end of a play session). Then the metal joiners will inevitably loosen over time. Loose joiners will have immediate impact on trains suddenly changing speeds and being juddery for no apparent reason, particularly if the track is loose laid and allowed to creep about due to the forces that a moving train will create.

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Loose joiners can be tightened with pliers. The other issue with joiners is that dirt grime and tarnish can build up on the metal surfaces between the track rail and the joiner. In an ideal world, the track is best pinned down onto a baseboard and a DCC Bus wiring scheme employed to provide direct power to rail soldered wired connections. Such that the metal track joiner is relegated to the task of just providing the physical track join. But this advanced approach to the distribution of power may not be in your skill set due to the need for soldering and wiring skills.

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The next best alternative is to keep on top of the 'regular cleaning routine' and don't assume that just because it looks physically clean that it is electrically clean as well. And don't forget to keep tightening those metal rail joiners. Without a BUS distribution wiring scheme the transfer of electricity from the controller to the loco is totally dependant on the joiners.

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[Live Wire Cox]

Thank you both for all the helpful information you have given me, I really appreciate that, thanks

Sasha

xx

[96RAF]

Just make sure you come back and tell is what you finally did to sort it out, so it will help others in the future.