Railmaster two controllers

[Scumcat 01]

Hello and hopefull thanks in advance, I’m  sorry that my first post is a question however I have a problem and it is driving me mad. I am running rail master 1.7 I’m trying to set up so I have a Hornby Elink as controller B for accessories i.e. point motors they are 25 cobalt IP digital. I have a Hornby elite set as controller A running software 1.45 to run the trains. In settings I have controller A as the elite at Com3 set at 19 200 and the link set as controller Bset at 115200 whenever I switch on and try to connect  The rail master on my laptop that runs Windows 10 always allocates the elink as A  and then the elite as controller  B it is driving me crazy.if I set the elink and the elite up separately without each other they are picked up and work fine it’s just  when I connect both I can’t get the system to work. Has anybody had this tale before. I decided to run two buses as every time I git a short the elite reset all my point motor addresse. I’ve been trying to solve this since April I’ve very nearly had enough.

[Chrissaf]

Have you got all four of these lines in your 'railmaster.ini' file.

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Alternative comms=n

Check controller=n

Alternative comms2=n

Check controller2=n

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Where n is either a zero or a one.

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The xxxxx2 entries are used by controller B. If the xxxxx2 lines are missing, then RailMaster may think that both controllers it detects are both controller A.

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You open the 'railmaster.ini' file editor. Open the RailMaster 'Help / About' screen and click the bluish COG icon in the bottom left corner.

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If the any of the four lines above are missing, add them as the last lines in the file. If they exist further up the file, then delete them and add them again as the last line entries. You will probably have to experiment with the 'n' values to then get a combination of values that work with your particular Windows set up..

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I would also amend this line to zero if it exists and currently has 'n' as a value of one.

Reset eLink on start=n

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TIP: As this is your very first post, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

[96RAF]

You indicate that you have solved your shorting proglem by running seperate buses for the two controllers. That is a must. Never connect more than one controller to a single bus or track.

 

You have got to allocate each controller in the main setup screen with Elite as A left hand side of screen for lcos and eLink as B at right hand side of screen for accessories.

 

If you allocate eLink as A then RM will not allow Elite as B. Make sure the Com Port in Dev Mgr matches that given in setup.

 

Edit v1.07 applies to the eLink. RM is at v1.71.0 at present. Make sure you are using the very latest version downloaded from the link at top of page.

[Scumcat 01]

Hello thank you for this, all seems to be connecting now. I think it was to do with the com ports, so I took everything away and started from scratch. My elite is still forgetting the point motor addresses on every short even though I have fitted a circuit breaker.

when I amusing a second controller for the accessories do I have to set up the points differently or will it figure it out by itself

i set both up in the settings, and matched the comm ports in device manager. I have been reading all the info and virtually every post on this since April and still cannot get it to work,

[Chrissaf]

In the track plan (setting up design screen, not the normal operating screen). You will have to right click each point icon and choose 'Controller B' in the 'pull down' controller choice box. Then save the changes prior to reloading the track plan in the normal operating screen.

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Have you got all four lines in your .INI file as per my first reply?

[Scumcat 01]

Sorry for late reply I couldn’t post more than twice in my first day. Yes all the lines you suggested to put in I put in. I had forgotten to swap the points over in the track plan screen to controller b, after I did this it all worked , I pulled my T-shirt over my head and did a celebratory lap around the garden. So much thanks to you, I’m going to check tomorrow to see if it sets up properly from scratch without any tinkerin. If it does all will be great it’s only taken me 5 months.

[Chrissaf]

Yes all the lines you suggested to put in, I put in.

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Just for completeness of information and for the benefit of other readers looking for a solution at a later date...can you tell us what 'n' values you finally ended up using for the four .INI file lines?

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Alternative comms=n ?

Check controller=n ?

Alternative comms2=n ?

Check controller2=n ?

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If it does, all will be great it’s only taken me 5 months.

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I mean this in no disrespect at all. But had you checked on the forum 5 months ago.....then maybe you could have got your system up and running a lot sooner.

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I do agree somewhat with you though. Software products should just install and work first time without grief. The main issue as I see it is that RailMaster was originally written for Windows XP using obsolete VB6 and could really do with a complete ground up re-write using modern W10 coding practices. In the current financial climate, there just isn't any budget for that expense, thus the 'make do and mend' mentality.

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The official Hornby documentation really doesn't cover the sort of solutions that we the forum member users find to resolve issues. Sure there are issues that only HRMS (Hornby RailMaster Support) can fix through their remote logon process. But many issues can be fixed by users themselves following guidance documented by the forum membership.

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May I suggest, that in future. When you come across further 'How To' issues going forward as you start to use the RM system. That you use the forum as your 'first port of call' to get them resolved. There are many articles on this forum relating to various 'How do I ....... in RailMaster' topics.

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Regular checking in on the forum will also mean that you can get advance warning of issues that have been found, before they become an issue that affects you. There is invariably a flurry of issues arising as a result of the automated RM software upgrades. These issues are usually found and documented on this forum within days of a new RM software release.

[Scumcat 01]

Hi chrissaf

im in work till late today so I will get those settings tomorrow for you. Although I have been having trouble since April it was only this week that I had set up problem with the elink and elite getting mixed up. My main issues have been with my elite and my point motors. As I said I use cobalt ip digitaL My first elite bought from amazon fried within 2 days and was returned. My second resets everything as soon as any short occur. I have sent mamy emails to dcc concepts and spoken numerous times to them and Hornby. Imagine your running trains have a point set the wrong way It shorts then you cannot move any of the points until you get under the boards to set the address again. Dcc concepts blamed the elite and advised I put in a light bulb that didnt help. Then a circuit breaker. Hornby wanted the elite back for checking and I got that back last week Apparently repaired but still wiping the point addresses. It was my idea after reading the forum to buy an elink and put in a second bus. then my problems started that I have described. I did search the forum but could not find a post were the Railmaster mixes up the two controllers so felt I had no option but to ask. But now I am a forum member it will make things easier

[96RAF]

Elite still wiping the point addresses.

 

Elite holds in its session memory stack those points you have selected during an operating session as it does with any locos. When you power down the unit it dumps those stacks. This is normal.

 

Elite will hold names of locos and points in Favourites which are not volatile unless you reset the Elite unit, when they will a,so be dumped. This again is normal.

 

It may be your short is effectively shutting the unit down and dumping the session stack, which is unlikely.

 

If Elite is controller A in RM then it should not be set up for operating your points, only locos. ELink should be controlling your points as controller B and there is no operating session stack required as all control is as required from the PC screen.

[Chrissaf]

When DCC experiences a 'short circuit'. It is possible (not every layout is affected this way) for the DCC voltage to start ringing. Ringing is a form of oscillation and is of short duration. The bad part about ringing is that it can increase the peak DCC voltage on the track by a factor of 3.

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A good clean DCC signal has a swing 'peak to peak' voltage of 28.8 volts (give or take a small amount). The factor of 3 ringing can create brief transient voltages that exceed 80-90 volts peak to peak. This can be higher than the voltage tolerance of the components (particularly capacitors) on the decoders.

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Loosing DCC configurations or being reset to factory defaults is a common symptom of short circuit induced ringing. In severe cases, the temporary component breakdown can become permanent and the DCC device is rendered unusable.

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I believe that the solutions that have been previously offered to you such as 'breakers' are ineffective in combating 'ringing' issues.

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There is a very simple easy and cheap solution to reducing the effect of 'ringing' on a DCC circuit. That is to install a filter (sometimes referred to as a 'snubber') across the DCC track supply. The filter consists of just two components. A 100 ohm 2 watt resistor in series with a 0.1uF Ceramic Capacitor with a rating of 50 volts or better. Note that the resistor will get warm to the touch. This is normal as the filter is constantly drawing about 100 mA through it. This constant background current needs to be factored into your power supply to number of locos being simultaneously operated power calculation. In other words, count the snubber power consumption as being a loco in use on the layout.

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I used to have this loss of configuration issue with my R8247 Accessory Decoders. This issue was completely eliminated after fitting my home made snubber.

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If you do go ahead with a Controller A & B implementation with the Accessory Decoders on a Bus connected to Controller B. Then you probably don't need a snubber on the Controller B Bus as it is unlikely to experience any shorts. It is still worthwhile, however, putting a snubber on the main track Bus as this will help to protect the decoders in the locomotives.

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[Scumcat 01]

Hello

dcc concepts sold me the snubbers and they are fitted but didn’t really help. Everyone has been at a loss. Early on in the process I sent 4 points back to Dcc concepts for testing they replaced them for ones they have tested. When my layout loses the point addreses the only ones that don’t are these four. So I’m not wholly convinced it’s all Hornby’s problem as they claim.

 

I have only had the elink and railmaster for a few weeks and only began setting it up this week. before this I was just using the elite for both trains and points, but I couldn’t cope with the hassle of the point address problem so read on here about the two controller option. It was either that or end up replacing controller or point motors but my 4 year old son can use the Hornby stuff so I was stuck really.

for the short running session I had yesterday with the elite running trains and elink doing points without the potential for a short to effect the point motors I was overjoyed.

[Fishmanoz]

Just a point of clarification - do you mean that your Elite is losing point addresses, which as has been pointed out is normal between sessions?  Or do you mean the point decoders are losing addresses, returning to default address, and having to be re-programmed?

 

If the latter and you have 4 replacements where this doesn’t happen, and older ones where it does, then this is almost certainly a DCC Concepts problem.  Given they’ve replaced 4, then you have an argument they should replace the rest.

[Scumcat 01]

Hello, so when I get a short through the rails the cobalt point motors that have not been replaced are reset to factory settings. This then means going through the process of resetting them and reprograming then. Climbing under the baseboards etc There are 21of them I’ve got it down to about 20 mins. Dcc concepts always said that the only system they have problems with is hornby And no other. However on the invoice for the ones that I returned it said exchange for HF type whatever that is. I never pushed it too hard with them as the motors hold a lifetime warranty and I don’t want to fall foul of them.

[Chrissaf]

There is a post somewhere on this forum. Where Cobalts had issues with Hornby controllers. However, if I recall correctly it had something to do with DCC addresses that had been previously set, stopping working. The original address couldn't be reinstated and a new address had to be allocated. DCC Concepts took the affected motors back and performed a modification, not sure what they did, possibly a firmware tweak. The returned motors then worked flawlessly.

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Could the HF stand for Hornby Fix.....or something similar.....just a thought.

[96RAF]

You could join their forum for an (un)biased opinion...

https://www.dccconceptsforum.com/

 

They have specific product forums.

[Fishmanoz]

Scumcat, you seem to be telling us that the Cobalts are faulty because they all keep resetting after a track short, they have a lifetime warranty that would cover it, but you are not going to use the warranty now in case you get another fault in the future?

 

Sounds to me like the classic tale of the storeman who would not issue the part clearly visible on the shelf behind because it was the last one and he was keeping it in case someone needed it in the future.

 

But then I have likely completely misunderstood you?

 

Seems like a simple question to DCC Concepts to me - you’ve fixed 4 under warranty, I have another 21 with the exact same fault, can you them too please?

[Scumcat 01]

I feel a bit misunderstoo, I’m not actually complaining. Dcc concepts have been totally fair and honest with me, so have Hornby they have both helped as far as they can but they both believe that it is the others responsibility.  I on the other hand just want my great new layout to work. And also strangely want to try and find my own solutions and I believe now I have in the form of railmaster and two controllers. 

 

I havent forgotten to get those settings I’ve been in work and not actually switched the laptop on since.