Cannot find loco

[Moonglum]

I have bought a second hand R1173.  When I try to read the cv list it goes through all 255 cvs, puts a value of 255 in each of them, puts 'manufacturer unique' in every description then finally comes back with a message saying 'can't find loco in database'.  I have used id 009 (which is the id it is supposed to be running on), 003 and, as a last hope 255.  The result is the same each time.

Where do I go from here?

[St1ngr4y]

CV values of 255 are usually returned if the CVs cannot be read. Have you checked that the wheel pickups are in contact with the wheels? It could be that the decoder is blown and you need to get back to the vendor. Assuming you have a programming track set up, have you any other DCC locos from which you can read CVs successfully?

 

Ray

[Moonglum]

Thank you for the reply.  The programming track is set up and I checked the cv of another loco on it.  That was all fine. The loco was making little noises (not as loud as my other locos) when the cv was being read if that helps.  I have just looked at the contacts.  I think they are touching though one might be a little loose.  I am new to this so not totally sure how tight the contacts should be.  I have gently moved the, possibly loose one, up to the wheel and will try programming again a bit later.

I don't think that I will be able to give any more replies for 24 hours.

[Chrissaf]

As Ray says. All CVs reading 255, just means that the DCC decoder can not be detected or read. Your other posted threads indicate that you are using eLink & RailMaster. So in order to help eliminate other possible causes of your issue I have a couple of questions. Please comment on or answer them.

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First of all I take it that the loco has been placed on a programming track piece physically connected to the eLink PROG A&B output before trying to read and write any CVs. The eLink does not support POM (Programming On Main).

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Secondly, if we assume that you are using the PROG track. Have you successfully read and written CVs on one of your other DCC locos? This question is asked just to confirm that you know what the correct methodology is and have used it successfully in the past. If you have never read or written a CV before, then you may just be doing it wrong and your loco is just fine.

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Thirdly, have you set up and run other DCC locos in RailMaster without issue? I am asking this question to gauge what level of competence you have with other aspects of RailMaster operation. Again, if you have difficulties with all your other DCC locos, you may just need some additional 'How To' guidance to cover the problem areas.

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For information. If you write a value of 8 to CV8 then that will reset Hornby decoders to the factory default. It is assumed that the R1173 loco still has the default Hornby decoder installed. Thus writing 8 to CV8 is valid for that decoder. Resetting the decoder to the factory default will change the DCC address to 003. Thus that would give you a known starting point to continue diagnostic tests from. The decoder will only accept the CV8 reset if RailMaster can see and detect the decoder, but RM should give you success / fail feedback on the CV read/write screen, if it is being done correctly.

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EDIT: This reply was written and posted before I saw your follow-up post that actually answers a couple of the questions I raised. I have left my post intact as reference material for others.

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PS - Your 1st post and 2nd post were a couple of weeks ago. You should now be able to post freely without hindrance. The newbie limit only lasts 48 hours and the initial two posts.

[Moonglum]

Yes it seems I can reply now.  I have found that it must be the pickups.  One of them was on the outside of the wheel and the other inside.  I put the outside one in and by holding the loco managed to get some of the correct values.  However, the moment my pressure changed it went back to inserting 255.  The two rear wheels, that have the pick up connection, seem to have a lot of play in them.  I am not sure if they should do.  The contacts have a little nodule at the end.  Should the whole of that nodule be covered by the wheel?  At present the nodules are only totally invisible if I push downwards on the loco.

[96RAF]

The little nodules - the bumps on the pickups should be running on the flat surface of the inside of the wheel. You would expect to see a visible and shiny trace of this contact.

 

The fact you are getting some readback tells us there is a decoder defintiely fitted and there is adequate contact at the time. Sometimes you may have to press down on a loco to make decent contact between the wheel rims and the rails.

[Moonglum]

Having taken the body off I can see that the upper half of the nodules are above the tops of the wheels.  Should the whole of the nodule be in contact?.  If so I am not sure how I am going to keep them in the lower position.

[96RAF]

The wheel wipers should rub on the backs of the wheels not the top, nor the outsides. Apologies for the poor drawing indicators.

It may be your motor is loose.

 

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[Moonglum]

Since my last reply I have cleaned the wheels and pickups, tried setting her up several times, sometimes managing to get some of the cv values to change if I am holding the loco in certain positions (not always the same position}.

Today I had the mad idea to get my old analogue track and power unit (not been used since the early 60's) and try the loco on that.  It went round like a rocket!

Does that give anyone any clues as to what the problem might be?  I assume that it is not the pickups as the loco would not work at all (but I don't actually have any idea if that would be so).

[Chrissaf]

DCC is far more sensitive to dirt, grime and resistive electrical circuit paths than DC Analogue. But that said, if the loco responds to DC Analogue without any noticeable issues, then it should in theory respond to DCC as well [provided that a DCC decoder is actually fitted and has not been removed by the previous owner].

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However, there is one thing that is guaranteed to potentially kill a DCC signal on some decoders.....particularly the low power signals used on the programming track. And that is using DC Analogue power tracks and power clips on a DCC layout. Not every DCC decoder will be affected by this. Some decoders are affected by this more than others. The symptoms you describe could potentially be attributed to using Analogue power connectors.

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Now the R1173 Digital Set should have the appropriate proper Digital power track / power clip product in it. But it has been known for some digital sets to leave the China factory with the wrong track power connector. Of course, you might be using an old analogue power track / clip from somewhere else rather than the digital one supplied in the R1173 set.

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If only to eliminate this possible issue from the equation. I suggest that you check that all power tracks and/or power clips connected to your main layout and programming track to ensure that the Analogue suppression capacitors are not present......removing any that you find. This could easily account for why the loco runs fine under DC control but not under DCC. The image below shows how to check for the capacitors in the track power products.

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[Moonglum]

My main track is fed by a bus wire and droppers straight from the e-link.  I checked the power rail on my programming track and that did not have a capacitor in it.

The seller sent me this response:-

Well this is tricky as I never had this issue when I ran it in my track which is standard size OO Gauge Hornby and Peco. The loco has been run literally6 times since new and the fact that it is in pristine condition and minimal wear or residue in the wheels is testament to that. I accept returns when the item is faulty and I can’t agree that it is faulty, no offence. It ran perfectly on my layout and will do on any layout running non E-link control surfaces.

According to him he sold his E-link because of these types of problems.  Is he talking complete rubbish?