How Many Brake Coaches In a Train?

[Railtwister]

As someone from the USA trying to learn about British railroads and their practices, I am curious to know if more than one brake coach might be found in a given train, or were trains limited to only one? Also, would a brake coach always be found in one position in the train, such as the last car, or first car, or could they be anywhere?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill in FtL

[LCDR]

The answer to this is complicated.

 

Until the end of steam (1968) it was the 'rule' that a brake coach had to be the last vehicle or with no more than one other passenger carriage behind it, unless otherwise authorised.  There were occasions where trans had to call at stations where the platforms were shorter than the train, so the brake carriage position could be adjusted to ensure the guard was next to the platform when the train stopped to allow parcels and mail to be transferred more or less on the level. This needed written and published authority. 

 

If the train conveyed more than one portion, i.e. it divided into two or more seperate trains en-route or joined up more than one portion, then it was usual to include a brake carriage in each portion.

 

If a train reversed en-route, i.e. departed from a station in the opposite direction to which it arrived, then it was usual to provide a brake at both ends. Trains which regularly turned back at a terminus at either end of its journey more than once a day would also have a brake at either end. However if the train was composed of only two carriages one brake only would often be provided, however Great Western Railway 'B' sets which were only two coaches DID include a brake van in both carriages. 

 

After the end of steam (1968/9) there were significant changes in working practices. Freight trains with fully working continuous brakes were permitted to run without a guards van. Until that time every train MUST have a guards van as the rear vehicle in which the guard must ride. Once the guards van was removed the guard travelled in the rear locomotive cab. Trains without full continuous brake, known as partly fitted or unfitted freight trains were still required to have a guards van on the rear, and trains conveying toxic or nuclear material also had to have a rear guards van. Passenger trains have to have a fully working automatiuc brake throughout by law, that law was made in the 1870s.

 

Passenger trains were then permitted to run with only one guards van which could be positioned in the train where convenient. For trains to and from London main stations the brakevan would be located at the London end of the train in many cases.  

 

Because the brakevan constituted a obstruction to passengers moving through the train it was usual to keep them to the ends UNLESS the van was fitteds with a security cage, so that mail and parcels could be locked securely away. BR Mark 1 carriages were fitted with cages but older vehicles were not.  These had to have the gangway at the ends of the carriages locked by the guard. This could be a nuisance for people wanting to visit the buffet car. 

[LCDR]

One other matter, the Soutrhern Railway who operated lines in the south of England from Kent to Cornwall had a policy of marshalling their carriages into fixed formation sets, more so than the other three major railways. These sets were either three or four carriages long, typically a Brake Third, a Composite, and a Brake Third, or a Brake Third, a Composite, another Composite, and another Brake Third. Trains longer than four carriages would be made up from two or more sets coupled together, with odd single carriages inserted where necessary, including of course a catering car. For dedicated services the Southern did create permanent five, six, seven and eight car formations, which only had a brake at the outer ends. Sets were identified by numbers painted on the brake van outer end. Special trains were sometimes made up from loose coaches.

 

Southern Railway had a few push-pull sets for branch line use which were normally two carriages attached to a locomotive which could be propelled as well as hauled. The driver had a cabin in the brake coach which contained controls which ran through the train to the locomotive. When the locomotive was propelling the fireman remained on the locomotive footplate while the driver travelled in the carriage. The other railways also used this arrangement, the Great Western frequently sandwiched the loco between two driving trailers. 

 

The London and North Eastern Railway did create fixed formation sets especially for suburban services. These often consisted of articulated carriages which shared a bogie between two vehicles, the number of coaches resulted in the description, 'Quad-art' for four in a set, 'Quint-art' for five in a set and so on.  In all these cases the outer carriages had a brake compartment.  Certain special express trains such as the Silver Jubilee and Coronation had special carriages marshalled in a fixed formation and painted in a distinctive livery. 

 

As mentioned above the Great Western Railway did also have a few suburban sets which were permanently coupled, in twos or fours, and these too had a brake van at the outer ends. 

[NWR-Gordon-4]

That’s a lot of useful information you have posted there, LC&DR and I found some information that I didn’t even know; So thank you.  😀

 

What I do is that I have a train on my layout, conisting of a locomotive snd four coaches or less, then I will add my one brake coach at the end. The problem with my layout, is that a locomotive and four coaches on the outer track, takes up an entire length, so realistically that’s more than enough length of a train!  😆

 

If I had a locomotive running, with five or more coaches, then I would add a second brake behind the locomotive.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[Rana Temporia]

I have a picture in a book somewhere of a train which consists only of multiple non-corridor brake coaches, I think on the Southern Region. If I can find it afterwards I'll post the reference. 

 

Also maybe of interest to add to the reference to the caged area, on the first holiday I went on with my partner which must have been in 1983 we were travelling home from Prestatyn to Manchester Victoria with our dog and the train was packed solid. The Guard allowed us to sit in the cage within a MK1 full brake so that the dog didn't get trampled. He also gave us some water for her. We sat on some wooden cases and watched the lightning all the way back In almost unbearable heat. The train loco was a class 40 But I can't remember which one. 

[LCDR]

There is a sequence in the Beatles film "A Hard Days Night" where the boys hide up in the security cage in a BSK and somehow find musical instruments to give an 'impromptu' gig.,

[LCDR]

There was no upper limit for the number of brake coaches, so a train composed entirely of brakes was certainly possible. The Atlantic Coast Express was made up almost entirely of Brake Composite carriages which were shed at the various junctions down the line and attached to a local branch service to complete the journey. 

 

The train would vary during the season but the down train trypically would be made up thus-

 

Leaving Waterloo the train consisted of at least 13 carriages. From the engine was a three set for Ilfracombe, a BCK for Torrington, a BCK for Plymouth, a BCK for Padstow, a BCK for Bude, a two carriage restaurant set to come off at Exeter, a BCK for Exmouth, a BCK for Sidmouth, a CK for Exeter, and at the rear a BCK for Seaton.

 

During the Summer Holiday season extra trains were run each serving a more limited number of destination.

 

The normal train was broken down as follows.

 

At Salisbury two coaches were detached, one was all stations to Exeter, the other travelled with it to Seaton Junction where it was detached for Seaton.

 

The train next detached two coaches at Sidmouth Junction one for Sidmouth the other for Exmouth. 

 

At Exeter Central the train was split into three. The two coach Resturant set was detached to await the up train. The leading portion went forward to North Devon, the rear portion going on to Plymouth. 

 

The North Devon portion stopped at Barnstaple Junction where another carriage was detached for Torrington.

 

The Plymouth porrtion then detached coaches at Okehampton for Padstow and for Bude.

 

The largest portion of the train was a three coach set which after Barnstaple Junction proceeded to Ilfracombe.

 

In the up direction the process was more or less done in reverse.

[LCDR]

The Atlantic Coast Express was not the only multi portrion train but  probably had the most portions.

 

Another one was the Lakes Express from Euston to Carlisle which had portions for Barrow in Furness detached at Lancaster, Windermere detached at Oxenholme, and Workington via Keswick, detached at Penrith. 

 

We used to use this train in steam days, leaving Euston behind a Princess Coronation Pacific and finally arriving at Keswick behind a Stanier 2-6-4T

[Rana Temporia]

The book I referred to is The Last Years of British Steam compiled by G. Freeman Allen. There is a picture of T9 30313 hauling what look like 4 non-corridor brake coaches at Meidon Junction. The coaches look like the Grafar 00 ones, but they were based on LMS prototypes!

[NWR-Gordon-4]

@Rana Temporia

 

Is there anyway you can upload an image of that picture, or can you not do that, due to copyright?

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[Rana Temporia]

GNR, I uploaded some pictures last week in a different thread that haven't been posted yet, I'm assuming the moderator is enjoying a festive break. I can post it with correct reference but it may not appear until next week. 

[NWR-Gordon-4]

@Rana Temporia

 

Oh yes, I think I have an image awaiting approval too!  😆

 

Perhaps you could post it now, or come back next week and do it. It's up to you. I suspect all images awaiting approval will be waiting until next week, I reckon, as you have already mentioned.

 

GNR-Gordon-4 (HF)

[Rana Temporia]

GNR, here you are;

 

The Last Years of British Steam compiled by G Freeman Allen and published by Ian Allen third impression published 1976 no page numbers.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/d33384208c0fb61c64ec869acc47b828.jpg

[LCDR]

The coaches in the picture look very like Maunsell restriction 4 corridors with the characteristic narrow brake van and wide passenger section. These of course are made by Hornby, as is theT9. The last one which is the other way round to the front three also shows the high corridor side windows. 

[NWR-Gordon-4]

@Rana Temporia

 

Thank you for the image, now that it has been approved. I like that image very much of the locomotive pulling four brake coaches.  😀

 

GNR-Gorodn-4 (HF)

[JJ73]

WOW LC - As Jacob say :- 

That’s a lot of useful information you have posted there, LC&DR and I found some information that I didn’t even know; So thank you.  😀

Plus that so much Lovely info that you have given - I think my head / brain is about to EXPLODE with all that Info!!!  😆 lol

[LCDR]

It is quite possible that the train in the picture is in fact a portion of the Atlantic Coast Express which will go on to be divided up further down the line and the coaches will be attached to branch trains to carry the passengers and their luggage to their holiday destinations.  Bear in mind that in the 1950s people still took lots of luggage with them on the train, and these had to be loaded into a guards van.

 

It was possible to send luggage in advance too, but that needed a bit of organisation to take it to the station a few days before travelling, and then collecting it at the destination station when they arrived. It also cost extra. 

[JJ73]

Is it not a Midland Compound the Loco in the Photo LC???

[LCDR]

Is it not a Midland Compound the Loco in the Photo LC???

No it is not JJ, it is a London and South Western Railway T9 class, it has the same number of wheels as a Midland Compound, but otherwise it is very different. For one thing the T9 has inside cylinders, and a straight running plate.

 

Hornby make models of both classes, the T9 is currently R3863 the Compound is R3276.

 

The whole train in the picture could be reproduced with Hornby T9 with 6 wheel tender R2831 or R3107, with two 6 compartment Maunsell high window corridor brake seconds , choose from R4305 (A/B/C/D), R4836, or R4838 and two 6 compartment Maunsell high window corridor brake composites choose from R4320 (A,B,C,D)

[JJ73]

Thank you for the clarification 😀 LC