Signals with Cobalt Digital IP

[Edyt_ai]

Dear Experts,

 

I am searching for a easy cheap solution to implement signals to my layout. 

 

I am using the Cobalt digital IP point motors.I was thinking if there are any 2 aspect siglans red and green out there that can work and they can be triggered once a point is changed, by the motors.

Is this possible? without using any other equipement? Something simple.

Any recomendations and ideeas are very welcomed.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Adrian

[96RAF]

There are many commercial two aspect signals out there that can be operated by point motor switches or from their own sensors, but making your own basic signals is fairly simple. Several folk have posted how they built their own and here is my version - http://www.halton96th.org.uk/article5.html  - not protypical in any way but they served my needs at the time and will be incorporated on my next layout. Note that any reference to buying from Maplin is no longer relevant as they do not market electronic component parts any more. Note also that I used Peco switches attached to a solenoid motor but you would just use your point motor aux contacts per the instructions.

[Chrissaf]

Cobalt iP Digitals have integrated relay contacts for precisely this task.

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Apart from the signals themselves & a current limiting resistor, all you need is a 12 volt DC power supply source. Remember that LEDs are polarity sensitive and only light up when the positive and the negative are the correct way round.

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You would wire them to the Cobalt iP Digital using terminals 4, 5 & 6 as per drawing below. Note that subject to the signals actually purchased, the resistor [ R ] in the drawing might be included as part of the signal itself (or at least provided with the signal in the same packaging).

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/media/tinymce_upload/00391ac35bcee0ae213a7e10b42e8bff.jpg

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Suppliers of 'fine detail' LED based 2 Aspect signals include:

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https://www.kyteslights.com/index.php?cPath=37&osCsid=juvhevih8eksk09qo7arqfsi9p

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https://www.layouts4u.net/oo-scale-lighting/oo-signals-traffic-lights/

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https://www.crsignals.com/oo-gauge-signals

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http://onlinemodelsltd.co.uk/product-category/berko/berko-colour-light-signals-2/square-head/

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http://onlinemodelsltd.co.uk/product-category/berko/berko-colour-light-signals-2/round-head/

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http://onlinemodelsltd.co.uk/product-category/berko/berko-colour-light-signals-2/2-aspect/

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All the above are 'ready to run'. If you want to save a few pennies then you can make from the Eckon kit range. Very simple....just needs small dabs of Superglue.

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http://onlinemodelsltd.co.uk/product-category/eckon/eckon-kits/2-aspect-eckon/

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I made up 6 of these Red / Green 2 Aspect Home ES2H signal kits and very easy it was to do too.

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/media/tinymce_upload/5bb0ff8bf80a10217d334d65643c878a.jpg

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[Edyt_ai]

Dear All,

 

My sincere thank you!!!! 

I will look in mode depth in this on the provided links.

 

Thank you again.

 

Regards,

 

Adrian

[Chrissaf]

Adrian,

Did my suggestions regarding rewiring your iP Digital in your other thread fix your frog 'short circuit' issue on your Double Slip points?

[Edyt_ai]

Dear Chrissaf,

 

Your method and explanation worked.Apologies as i did not respond to that.

There was one loose connection to the frog that was causing me problems and i could not see that.Now the double slips i have work flawlesly.I am using the z21 app to change the points, and the remote wireless for the locos.

Regarding the signal,after much consideration i will use the ones that you have as they seem to be really nice and look great.

As for the wiring, i am using the z21 system that is powering my layout.so far i have 11 point motors all wired up and working great.

The ES2H signals have 3 wires i would guess.Red, green and black(that usually has a rezistor on it).If i put all these in the socket of the point motors 4,5 and 6, would i still need a separate PSU than the system i am using? 

Or am i suppose to get a different power supply to wire the black cable of the sygnal.Sorry, my skills are not that great when it comes to this.

Looking at your drawing, i would not need any PSU as long as i put all the 3 calbes in the point motors sockets.Is that it? 

Kind Regards,

 

Adrian 

[Chrissaf]

If I put all these in the socket of the point motors 4,5 and 6, would I still need a separate PSU in the system I am using?

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Yes.....I advise that the signals should all share a common separate 12 Volt DC supply.

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Just for clarification of your understanding......I have made an embellishment to part of my original drawing and placed it below.

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If you were to purchase a ready made signal instead of the ES2H kit, you will need to ascertain from the supplier whether it is made as 'common anode' or 'common cathode'. Note that ready made LED signals are more often than not typically 'common cathode'.

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A 'common anode' signal means that the common wire of the signal goes to the positive of the separate power supply, whilst a 'common cathode' signal means that the common wire of the signal goes to the negative side of the separate power supply.......see the drawings below.

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/media/tinymce_upload/bfd08f3a759559649f6a656bd6bd6af2.jpg

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I have shown the signal with red, green and black wires. But the colours of the wires on any purchased signals might be different. The instructions that come with the signals will advise colour and function. My ES2H Eckon signals for example came with orange, green and two white wires (the two white wires were the common return, shown as black in the drawing above). Since they were kits I chose to make them as 'common cathode' (common negative). There is no guarantee that ES2H kits purchased today will still use the same three colours. I bought mine about 6 years ago.

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The orange, green and white wires included with my ES2H signal were quite short (about 150mm) and need extending under the base board. I used thin 7/0.2mm wire soldered to the signal wires and insulated with '1.5mm heat shrink sleeving'. The signal orange wire I attached to a red wire. The signal green wire I attached to a green wire, and the two signal white wires I attached to a black wire via the resistor.

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PS - Glad to hear that my frog 'short circuit' solution worked for you.

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[Edyt_ai]

Wow, this is really detailed!!! Thank you very much!! exactly what i needed.

That means that another Bus wire needs to be placed, separately from the others.

Need to find a PSU especially for this.Any recommendations? Also, can i add the normal lights that i want to put in the station platforms to it? droppers and connect it to this bus? i dont need them to change as it just for street and platform light.Would that work as well with the same PSU? 

Just to confirm also, either red, or black bus wire that comes from the PSU will go in the Port 6 (Aux Com) of the Cobalt motor, depending if it is Common Cathode or Common Anode.also with droppers from the motors .As i have multiple ones.

My wish is to use only this PSU for the lights, both signals ,platforms and streets.

Just to recap, sorry about this.if the signal uses Common Cathode( connected to the black bus wire of the PSU) , then from the red wire put a dropper that will go in the 6 port of the motor.And so on for the rest of the motors,correct? 

Kind regards,

 

Adrian

 

 

 

[Chrissaf]

Need to find a PSU especially for this.Any recommendations?

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Any general purpose 12 Volt DC supply will do. However as you would like to use it for general layout lighting such as street lighting, building lighting etc as well as signals. Then I advise that it is one with at least a 5 Amp current rating. Search eBay for 12 volt DC supply. Individually, LEDs do not take much current, but once you get the BUG and start adding building lights, station lights, street lights and any other 12 volt DC scenic product. Then the current required does start to build up quite rapidly. I also like to keep my power supplies running at about 50% max utilisation so that they are not stressed.

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Also, can I add the normal lights that I want to put in the station platforms to it? droppers and connect it to this bus? I don't need them to change as it just for street and platform light. Would that work as well with the same PSU?

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Absolutely, I use a single 12 volt DC power supply for ALL my LED based layout lighting. Also see may answer to your first point above.

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Just to confirm also, either red, or black bus wire that comes from the PSU will go in the Port 6 (Aux Com) of the Cobalt motor, depending if it is Common Cathode or Common Anode.

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Yes.......Port 6 of ALL the (used for signalling) point motors would attach to the 12 volt BUS.

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Also with droppers from the motors .As I have multiple ones.

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Sorry, I don't quite understand this particular question point.!!! Is it answered by my previous responses to your other question points above?

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Just to recap, sorry about this. If the signal uses Common Cathode (connected to the black bus wire of the PSU), then from the red wire put a dropper that will go in the 6 port of the motor. And so on for the rest of the motors, correct?

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Yes......as per the left hand drawing in my previous post. The downward facing arrows annotated as "To other Signals". This also means "To terminal 6 on other point motors" as well as "To other Signals".

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[Edyt_ai]

Dear Chrissaf,

 

Thank you for all the explanation.I know a lot more now than i knew this morning and would know on how to start.

Everything you said was exactly what i needed to answer my questions.Greately appreciate the links for the Power supply as well.

I will take a 12 volt DC power supply for 5 amp for the layout signals only( or is it overkill? a lower one would be better?), and another one for 5 amp for the rest of the lights(street, platform buildings if there will be).

Thank you , so far this is where i got the most straight advice i could get for my layout, and not only on this post!!!! 

 

Kind Regards,

 

Adrian

[Chrissaf]

As I said, 5 amps or better still 2 x 5 amp supplies as you have suggested gives plenty of expansion scope and should provide reliable longevity as the supplies will be working only at a % of their full capacity.

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You might want to consider for peace of mind including an inline fuse in the supply outputs. The kind of accessory inline fuse that you can buy in Halfords for cars for example and initially replace the included Halfords 5 amp fuse with a 3 amp one. An actual replaceable fuse can be more effective short circuit protection compared to the 'auto shutdown' circuit in the average PSU. You can buy basically the same things more cheaply on eBay if you prefer, where the 30mm 3 amp fuses can also be purchased separately.

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PS - In case it is not obvious to you, you cut the wire loop on the eBay fuse holders somewhere in the middle to create two tails for attaching to other wires.

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PPS - Nearly all the power supplies of this type terminate with a 5.5mm / 2.1mm DC plug with positive centre pin. You will need a DC Socket adaptor to allow the termination of wires onto your 12 volt DC distribution BUSes.

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Click this image below for details [you only need the socket half of this connector pair]

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[Edyt_ai]

Dear Chrissaf,

 

I wanted to confirm something with you if possible regarding the signals.

I believe i made a mistake with a purchase.I have bought the Berko B229.But if i put that on my track, they seem awfully small even though the packaging of the signal says it is for 00/HO.

Attached are some pictures.Is this how are they supposed to be?this small?for my reference, can you add a picture of how yours look like? 

Are yours the ones Eckon ES2H? I`m looking for something with Green and Red light from the page you suggested...but worried now because of the size.

Dont mind the layout, it`s just a test track mostly./media/tinymce_upload/26c2ce240703401985bc623bc00aae83.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/912025abf964aa77dbfe3ab354238734.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/9e7e9971958cc8bfb201e355a248438d.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/1e1e0664bf9b8828b0bdfdfd2d00396d.jpg

Thank you and as always appreciate your responses.

Kind Regards,

Adrian

[Chrissaf]

They are the correct scale for 4mm signals.

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Others like for example Hornby R406 Dual Aspect signals are over-scale, and Hornby 00 semaphores to my mind look as if they would be more at home on an 0 Gauge layout

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So no, you have not bought the wrong size, they are perfectly correct for the signal type and era that they are made for.

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Eckon ES2H Signal as requested.

/media/tinymce_upload/35df6e48b9cc9d4a183c064ce89c14c6.JPG

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My ES2H signals are 56mm from baseboard to top tip. In 4mm scale terms this is 14 feet which equates to 4.27 metres. Well within expected scale size. Subject to being corrected by someone like LC&DR who can almost certainly quote 'chapter and verse'.

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[wildrapid47]

Chris,

Please could you repost the wiring diagram of how to connect signals and the 12v accessory bus to the Cobalt IP digital motors. Your diagram doesn't appear and it is exactly what I need as a newly to model railways and DCC.

Many thanks,

Steve

[Chrissaf]

As my posts in this thread are 12 months old, I can't really be sure which schematic drawings I used in them originally. But the two below should [hopefully] provide the information you are after. Note that the Cobalt contacts are only really suitable for dual aspect signals. 3 & 4 Aspect signals need their own controllers. You need to identify whether your signals are 'Common Anode' or 'Common Cathode' as the power polarity is opposite for each type ... see second image [only applicable to LED based signals].

We are still expecting the original historical images to re-appear in these historical threads at some future date. The developers are still working on the transfer of images from the old to this new forum. It is taking more time than expected due to technical difficulties getting the images in the right format from the previous website hosting company.

[wildrapid47]

Chris,

Many thanks. You are a star and such a rapid reply too !!!

Steve