Sapphire Decoder - suitability for loco types

[Chrissaf]

Hi

Which locos will take the sapphire  decoder as is larger than most .

thanks 

 

[Chrissaf]

The Sapphire is a 21 Pin decoder. Apart from Hornby locos that have an XS suffix i.e RxxxxXS, then by far the majority of Hornby locos have 8 pin sockets. The smaller locos might have 6 pin or 4 pin instead of 8. Whilst the Pendolino is more likely to have a 7 pin socket.

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Therefore the lack of Hornby locos that have factory fitted 21 pin sockets has probably contributed as to why Hornby have discontinued production of the Sapphire and it is now obsolete. Note that the Sapphire (when brand new) comes with an 8 pin to 21 pin harness adaptor.

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TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[96RAF]

My method with any decoder where space may be tight is to make a dummy decoder using thick card (old Metcslfe kit spare bits are ideal) and see if it will fit. Where a harness is fited one must use common sense and judgement of course to gauge the extra room needed.

[ColinB]

Unfortunately I have a couple of damaged units I use, to work out the space.

[Andy Train]

Thanks for the quick reply

if I use the 8 pin harness will the loco, will the decoder still function like the 21 pin decoder or will it's functions

[jane1707819582]

It will function just the same

[Chrissaf]

The Sapphire has four functions in hardware (the same as the Hornby R8249). It has F0 which uses two functions (forward lights and reverse lights), it has F1 (third function) and F2 (fourth function). F1 & F2 are general purpose functions and can be used for numerous things.

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Other non Hornby branded 21 Pin decoders may have further functions in addition to these, plus other optional features for which some of their 21 pins will be assigned to.

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In other words, the Hornby Sapphire R8245 decoder does not implement every pin function at the hardware level that the MTC21 pin interface is capable of supporting. So in that respect, at the hardware level the Sapphire is a 'cut down' version of some 21 pin implementations produced by other non Hornby brands.

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But it is 100% compatible with the 8 pin sockets provided on the bulk of Hornby branded locomotives.

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[96RAF]

As you can see not every pin is used by the Sapphire adaptor harness.

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[Andy Train]

Thanks

so the 4 Event programme will still work with the Elite controller and Saphire decoder,  using the 8 pin adapter harness in an 8 pin loco

have I got this correct ?

thanks 

[96RAF]

Yes

 

The four event facility should work with any controller that can write to CVs as the event and control data is stored on the Sapphire decoder (CVs121-140). See the decoder manual.

 

The Elite just makes it easy to program as it is done via the Elite Menus. See the Elite manual.

[ellocoloco]

I have found this thread regarding the Sapphire decoder very interesting and not something I had thought about much.

 

Whilst it may be correct that Hornby appear to have settled on an NEM 652 8 pin plug in the OO models, since 2010 as Hornby Int'l models have been introduced or re-released they have appear to have been updated to NEM 660 21MTC sockets*. The Sapphire decoder was still listed in the 2019 Hornby Int'l Autumn/Winter New Items catalogue - I don't have the 2020 catalogue - and as Chrissaf states the Sapphire is basically an 8 pin decoder with a 21MTC plug it will not be able to manage the 'enhanced' lighting functions available on newer Hornby Int'l models where individually switchable rear lighting has been a feature of some locomotives since 2013 and been incorporated in upgrades when models have been re-released, such as the ALCo DL500C in 2015.

 

In the UK OO market where Hornby is the leader there has perhaps been the decision that a NEM 652 8 pin and value TTS is the way forward** whilst the International models are specified to be comparable with the likes of Roco and Trix and include the increased functionality offered by a NEM 660 21MTC.

 

* I collect Electrotren so have looked more closely at Hornby's Spanish brand rather than Rivarossi, Jouef and Lima but a quick glance through the 2019 Autumn/Winter new items catalogue shows almost universal use of the 21MTC socket in HO scale with the NEM 651 on a small number of small engines, notably the 0-6-0 tanks. Electrotren first used a 21MTC in the 594 DMU which was announced in 2010.

 

**where space permits.

[96RAF]

Sapphire supports special lighting effects such as dimming, strobe, flash, flicker, etc, and function mapping but independant rear lighting control would have to be done by use of the additional funcation outputs.

 

The Sapphire is a full 21-pin decoder limited to some extent by the 21-8 pin restrictive adaptor harness.