Emergency stop

[DK123GWR]

I have recently been experimenting with some of the setting in Railmaster. In the course of this, I accidentally turned on 'controlled emergency stops' which I only realised when I attempted to use this facility and had to grab a locomotive and remove it from the track in order to prevent a collision. I have attempted to turn this off again, but now all of my locomotives will suddenly slow, before returning to normal speed and slowing down as usual. I am using RM with an elink and standard 8 pin Hornby decoders. Although I have seen suggestions that the decoders may be the cause of this issue, I do not believe this to be the case since it has worked in the past. I have been unable to find a solution to this problem by reading previous threads on this subject, so does anybody have any suggestions? To be clear:

- The 'controlled emergency stop' box is NOT ticked

- This setup (same, decoders in same locomotives operating on same track powered by same controller using RM installed on the same computer) has worked before

- None of my locomotives have flywheels

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Chrissaf]

Shut everything down, including the eLink, reboot the PC and restart again and then see if it still happens. Lots of RM quirks seem to get resolved after a system reboot.

[DK123GWR]

Lots of RM quirks seem to get resolved after a system reboot.

Unfortunnately, this doesn't seem to be one of them. I've tried it but exactly the same is happening.

[96RAF]

Controlled emergency stop uses the deceleration setting in  each decoder - at least that is the theory. Each loco should stop at its own CV4 rate.

Uncontrolled e-stop is just that - a power off, handbrake hard on stop. All locos should slam to a halt.

[DK123GWR]

Controlled emergency stop uses the deceleration setting in  each decoder - at least that is the theory. Each loco should stop at its own CV4 rate.

Uncontrolled e-stop is just that - a power off, handbrake hard on stop. All locos should slam to a halt.

I know what should happen, what I don't know is why it isn't. In the meantime, I guess I'll have to keep a way of opening the circuit nearby, just in case.

[Chrissaf]

Use the integrated 'Support Request' function in the 'Help Screen' to report your issue as a RM bug. it sounds as if 'unchecking the tick box' has not been enacted upon by the RM application. RM creates a 'log.txt file' of each action. This 'log file' gets sent to HRMS when you use the 'report function' they in theory should be able to see you 'set the check box' then see you 'uncheck it' and hopefully get a clue from the log what is or what is not happening. You might want to review the log file yourself, it is just a basic text file that can be opened and read in Wordpad or Notepad [Wordpad formatting options make it easier to read the log].

[OssieB]

@DK123GodsWonderfulRailway

 

I reported this to HRMS some five years ago and as they were unable to replicate the senario, it has remained unresolved. Since then I have started using alternative decoders to the standard Hornby H8249 and all these, including a Hornby Sapphire, stop dead. The thread with the details relating the this can be seen on the link below:-

 

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/8381/?p=1

 

BarryO

[DK123GWR]

@DK123GodsWonderfulRailway

 

I reported this to HRMS some five years ago and as they were unable to replicate the senario, it has remained unresolved. Since then I have started using alternative decoders to the standard Hornby H8249 and all these, including a Hornby Sapphire, stop dead. The thread with the details relating the this can be seen on the link below:-

 

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/post/view/topic_id/8381/?p=1

 

BarryO

This is one of the threads I had in mind when I wrote this:

"Although I have seen suggestions that the decoders may be the cause of this issue, I do not believe this to be the case since it has worked in the past."

The decoders haven't changed, so I don't see how they can be the problem. I'm also committed to these decoders as I am upgrading a reasonably large fleet and have just bought five in a sale from a well-known retailer in a city which is United, except for Wednesday. I would rather rely on a manual emergency brake than re-upgrade upgraded stock at the moment.

[OssieB]

As I think I peviously reported, I have fitted an emergncy stop button adjacent to my laptop, that when pushed cuts off the power to my DCC disribution bus. The link below gives you an idea of the type of ES button I use.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Red-Mushroom-DC-30V-5A-AC-250V-3A-Emergency-Stop-Push-Button-Switch-kl/184281339086?epid=1290945819&hash=item2ae80614ce:g:OZ8AAOSwiYlZ9rO0

BarryO

[St1ngr4y]

@DK123GWR

 

In the original post, you stated "I have attempted to turn this off again, but now all of my locomotives will suddenly slow, before returning to normal speed and slowing down as usual." Can you just clarify for my benefit, when this happens - is it when you press the RM "ALL STOP" button?

 

I have been doing a bit of experimentation this morning with this setting. My setup is slightly different in that I use an Elite as Controller A and an eLink as Controller B. However, I would have thought the effect of this setting should be the same, whichever Controller is used to control the locos. I don't think this fact has been mentioned much on the Forum, but, the DCC protocol for loco decoders says that speed step 1 is used as an emergency stop command i.e. on receiving a command speed=1, the decoder will immediately reduce the DC voltage to the motor to 0v. This is different to a command speed=0. In such a case, the decoder will gradually reduce the DC voltage to the motor depending on the setting of the deceleration CV. So I observed the DCC commands being sent out by the Controller to the track bus when the "ALL STOP" button is pressed. When the RM setting "Controlled Emergency Stop" is NOT set, RM generates a Speed=1 command for every loco. When the setting IS set, RM generates a Speed=0 command for every loco.

 

One thing I did notice during this experimentation was that the small loco throttle appeared to stop working when I had the "Controlled Emergency Stop" set ON. Also, the large throttle and small throttle for the same loco seemed to stop mirroring each others speed changes.

 

I hope this clarifies what is happening "behind the scenes".

 

Ray

[DK123GWR]

@DK123GWR

 

In the original post, you stated "I have attempted to turn this off again, but now all of my locomotives will suddenly slow, before returning to normal speed and slowing down as usual." Can you just clarify for my benefit, when this happens - is it when you press the RM "ALL STOP" button?

Yes it is.

[St1ngr4y]

@DK123GWR

 

Had you been using the throttles before this, and if so which ones - large or small ? It could be my observation of the throttles (large & small) getting out of sync with each other, has something to do with this. For example, if the large throttle has a loco travelling at 60 and the small throttle has the same loco travelling at 40, and the loco is ACTUALLY running at 60, then the All Stop button is pressed, then maybe RM firstly changes the speed to that of the small throttle (40), then to that of the large throttle (60), then to 0 to allow CV controlled deceleration. I don't know - it's only a hypothesis, but I think it may be worth reporting as a fault.

 

Ray

[OssieB]

Ray, in my case I am almost certain that I would of being using the small throttles. Since I can only use two large throttles and these cover a large part of the schematic layout, I would have been using others on the small throttle. I have not observed the same out of sync of the large and small throttles myself as you have found, but that does not say it has not happened without me noticing it. At the next running sesion I will see if I can replicate the out of sync. Since fitting some TTS decoders I have not tried using the "All Stop" button, so that is another thing that I try latter to see what happens and if it is the same a the standard H8249's.

 

BarryO

[DK123GWR]

@DK123GWR

 

Had you been using the throttles before this, and if so which ones - large or small ? It could be my observation of the throttles (large & small) getting out of sync with each other, has something to do with this. For example, if the large throttle has a loco travelling at 60 and the small throttle has the same loco travelling at 40, and the loco is ACTUALLY running at 60, then the All Stop button is pressed, then maybe RM firstly changes the speed to that of the small throttle (40), then to that of the large throttle (60), then to 0 to allow CV controlled deceleration. I don't know - it's only a hypothesis, but I think it may be worth reporting as a fault.

 

Ray

I use both (in different circumstances) but have never observed them becoming out of sync as you describe when the emergency stop fails. I have seen them out of sync, but not when performing emergency stops.

[OssieB]

To follow up on my last post, I have had a running session to see what happens to each of my locos when the "All Stop" button is pressed. With each loco I operated the stop at least four times. On all the locos fitted with Hornby H8249 and Hornby TTS decoders, the results were all as previously described - an initial sudden check in speed as if going to stop dead but then continuing on as a normal stop. All the other locos fitted with either DCC Concepts, Bachmann or Lais decoders performed correctly and stopped dead. My one loco fitted with a Hornby Sapphire decoder also performed correctly. All these trials were carried out with the Controlled Emergency Stops in RM settings unchecked. I tried each loco with this checked and all performed correctly, stopping in the normal way.

 

In a follow up on Ray's comments regarding the out of sync of the large and small throttles, I used both with all locos and found that all operated correctly in sync.

 

BarryO