Analogue & DCC dual layout

[GWR FanBoy]

Hello,

I'm looking into dabbling with DCC as after coming back to the hobby after 30 years & I've bought myself some new DCC ready locos.  I want to be able to swap between analogue and DCC and doing some research I believe that is possible by either a DPDT switch or by simply unplugging and swapping the controllers.

However- I currently have 3 analogue loops individually controlled and linked together via insulated fishplate points.  If I unplugged those controllers and attached a DCC controller it would therefore only power the loop it is plugged into.   Could this be overcome by using R8201 track link wires?  So, it would be the DCC controller linked to the 3rd radius track with the link wires going from the 3rd to the 2nd radius and so on ensuring all 3 loops are powered by the DCC controller

Thanks

[Chrissaf]

Could this be overcome by using R8201 track link wires?

 

R8201 are for Analogue use only and contain suppression capacitors that will kill (distort) a DCC track signal.

 

Just parallel up the three feeds going into the three loops and then connect them in turn as a single connection to the DCC controller. You just need to ensure that all three feeds are connected to the DCC controller the same way round, get one reversed and a short will be generated when a loco tries to traverse the points going from one loop to another.

 

By completely disconnecting the analogue controllers and reconnecting to the DCC controller, then you are guaranteed 100% electrical separation to prevent damage of the controllers.

 

IMPORTANT note this. If your current Analogue controllers connect to your track loops via R602 power clips or R8206 power tracks, These are also analogue power products and contain DCC signal killing suppression capacitors. So these need to be either replaced with DCC friendly versions [R8241 R8242] or modified to remove the internal capacitors.

 

IMPORTANT Also, 'DCC Ready' locos ARE NOT DCC. They are Analogue locos. 'DCC Ready' just means that the loco has a socket inside into which a DCC decoder can be plugged. The 'DC Bypass' plug (Blanking Plate) that is currently in the socket of a 'DCC Ready' loco needs to be removed and replaced by a plug in DCC decoder before you can control it with a DCC Controller

 

TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

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See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

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[Flashbang]

You MUST fit decoders into all the locos BEFORE they are placed onto DCC powered rails.

DCC READY simply means as sold the loco is suitable for operation on DC only. But it has a removable small plug-in circuit board inside the loco, that once removed allows a suitable decoder to be fitted in its place. 

Once converted to DCC by adding a decoder of choice, the loco is then classed as DCC Fitted.  It will usually operate on both DC and DCC power without any alterations needed. (There are a few exceptions, but in the main they will work on both styles of power).

 

Next, it is essential that no DC power can ever connect to the DCC system. If it does its very likely to cause the DCC console to fail terminally!   If one loop was DC powered and another DCC powered a loco crossing from one loop to the other would cause the connection with dire results!

 

Finally a word of warning.... Never allow a DC only loco (DCC Ready or older just DC locos) to sit on DCC powered rails. A) They will not work, and worse B) The motor will quickly overheat and the motors coils burn out.   Why is that? Because the DCC power is continually feed to the rails even when the speed knob is Off unlike DC where the power varies from 0 to nominal 12volts. DCC is at around 8KHz (8000Hz or in "old money" 8000 cycles per second). This cause a motor that's directly connected to this frequency to hunt (moving back a fore) a tiny bit at 8000 times a second in turn causing heat to build up within the windings and eventually the fine copper wire windings of the motor will burn out! Result =Totally useless motor!  😮

[96RAF]

Be aware that if you have set up a track for DCC and attached accessory decoders for points operation to that track then when you,switch across to DC you must arrange for those decoders to be taken off the bus. One way of doing this is to wire the decoders direct to the controller rather than via the track then they come under the influence of the DPDT switch, noting that this switch must have a positive centre off position to provide isolation as you transit from DCC to DC and vice versa.

[GWR FanBoy]

Thanks for your responses- a wealth of knowlege and  no doubt experience to go with it.  I'm happy with DCC fitted and ready and don't intend to mix analogue and DCC in various loops; it will be a DCC or analogue layout depending on the locos I want to run. 

I hadn't considered accessory decoders for points but thankfully that is not currently an issue.

I am using R602 and didn't realise they wouldn't be suitable  for DCC; thanks for the recommend.  Do the R8241 R8242 power clips work for analogue and DCC or would I have to swap between those and the R602 each time I switched?

 

[Chrissaf]

The R8241 / R8242 variants will work with DC Analogue. Unlikely to be an issue these days with modern Digital radios and TVs, but the Analogue suppression in the R602 and R8206 and R8201 track connection products was there to prevent crackles on the 'Long / Medium Wave' radio bandwidths and lines appearing on your old Analogue TVs.

 

The existing Analogue ones can be modified .. to save buying new.

 

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[96RAF]

Oddly the digital decices with less components are more expensive than the original analogue ones giving the impression the digital ones were converted at cost.

 

[GWR FanBoy]

Chrissaf or anyone: could you please explain this in a bit more detail please:

"Just parallel up the three feeds going into the three loops and then connect them in turn as a single connection to the DCC controller".

[Chrissaf]

Simplest solution is to use a Nylon Screw Terminal Strip.

 

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[GWR FanBoy]

 Hell All,

Many thanks for all your help with this.  I've achieved a dual DCC and DC layout and overcome the insulated fishplates on the points linking the 3 loops by powering 1 loop direct with the DCC controller and then using DCC power clips (R8242) or power track (R8241) and link wires between the loops.

When the DCC controller is removed the link wires are pulled and DC controllers and plugged in.

Simple(ish)

Thanks