Problems with TTS J36 sound decoders

[richmarsh]

HI

Having some major problems wth this decoder (TTS J36) not working with my loco's. Bought three, only one works BUT fitted in reverse (does'nt work if placed in the socket correct way) and won't change to 'normal' (cv) control direction ! The others only working in one track direction and no sound except for some uncontrolled sounds on odd brief occasions! All loco's work with Hornby decoders.

Have loco's with TTS Black 5 sound decoders and are working great.Using an Uhlenbrook DAISY II version 1.3 controller. Tried manufacture re-sets.

[Chrissaf]

Whilst you wait for a reply, perhaps you would spend a few minutes reviewing the TIPs in the TIP page link below:

 

TIP: As a newbie poster on the forum, just be aware that the 'Blue Button with the White Arrow' is not a 'Reply to this post' button. If you want to reply to any of the posts, scroll down and write your reply in the reply text box at the bottom of the page and click the Green 'Reply' button.

 

See also – further TIPs on how to get the best user experience from this forum.

https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/forum/tips-on-using-the-forum/

 

[96RAF]

Contact Hornby Customer Care and discuss. They may suggest a return to works repair or replacement.

An old TTS problem long since solved was unidirectional programming and operation, whereby a TTS loco would only work or could he reprogrammed in one direction. This was fixed by a reporgram of the decoder by Hornby, but I doubt the same problem has re-appeared.

[ColinB]

That is really weird, turning the chip round shouldn't make any difference. It is not my old friend the "dodgy" socket. I have found on some TTS decoders the pins are thinner than their normal decoder counterparts, so you get a lot of loose connections. I had one where the sound didn't work properly, but normally they go backwards and forwards ok. I have also had issues where they lose sound on one loco, I later traced that to some interaction with the motor, it works perfectly ok in another loco.

[Fishmanoz]

Probably what Rob said this time Colin - firmware upgrade needed for the decoders by return to Hornby. They must be old stock though as this was fixed in new stock ages ago. 

There was a whole batch with this issue some years ago before you arrived on the forums Colin. 

[richmarsh]

 Hi

Thanks for replies.

Have returned the two erratic/inoperative decoders to the sellers. Had bought from different sellers. I'm a bit wary of buying replacement decoders for the models I would like sound in. I thought turning the sockets around would make no difference as well, BUT this one does and cant access CV0 to change direction. Will try again tonight placing the socket correctly to ascertain excact response on track and programme track !!!!

Sadly the first inoperative decoder I did not get any communication from seller as to reason for this, but just refund. Awaiting response following return to seller for second one.

[ColinB]

Thanks Fishmanoz, hopefully all the dodgy ones have gone. It is the one item, that I only buy from a recognised retailer, just in case you have to send them back to Hornby. A couple I have damaged by me doing something wrong which I will own up to, but I have also had about 3 that have just failed, or lost sound or the sound was distorted. Another one kept losing sound, but works perfectly in another loco.The one in the HST just died while it was running around the layout, it was a hot day and it was driving a 5 pole ringfield motor, but it had worked perfectly for 6 months. Trouble is deugging software faults costs a lot of time, effort and money, so I suppose some of the very rare issues never get resolved. The only thing that worries me is I have a lot of locos, with quite a lot fitted with TTS decoders, I am always worried that one will just die when I run it and it will probably be out of warranty.

[96RAF]

If you look at the 8-pin socket wiring you will see why the lights only work with the plug in the right way round. The outer four pins are not orientation critical but the inner four pins are, In order to get the blue common positive feeding the right wires inside the loco. Turned around it swaps blue with the green wire.

 

/media/tinymce_upload/03008ec81bbc1ad4bb28b21586fd828e.png

 

There is no CV0 - I take it you mean F0, which almost universally controls the direction lights. Do not confuse CVs with Functions.

 

There is one other thing that controls directional lighting and that is the speed table. The speed table is defined in a series of CVs and it may he worth looking in your Daisy user manual to see if it mentions complex speed table setting. The Hornby Elite has a simple Menu selection for this but I wouldn’t know about Daisy.

[96RAF]

We can get a bit closer to solving this problem if we knew the value of CV7 for each TTS decoder that displays problems as this tells us where in the firmware production stream the decoder was produced.

 

The final answer is likely to be arrange to send it/them back to Hornby for reprogramming.

[richmarsh]

 Hi

TY for reponses and advice.

The tts decoder which worked if placed reverse in socket, is corrected ,due to advice provided. The female socket was not 'connecting' properly with the male decoder plug (not seating fully/properly). So have ordered another for one of my other loco's to try.

SORRY meant cv29/bit0 not cv 0.

 

[richmarsh]

 Hi

Following on ! Purchased another decoder from same supplier, SADLY, this one works in only 1 direction as well. Going by replies, it would appear that this supplier has a 'old' bugged batch!!!! This has a cv7 reading 14.

Going to try and discuss with Hor

[richmarsh]

 Hi

TY everyone for advice/help.

Contacted Hornby. SADLY. they have refused to repair/re-program.REASON, was not purchased from one of their recognised retailers !!  SO HOW DID THIS RETAILER GET HORNBY PRODUCTS?? Any way rant over Hornby did not even offer a repair for a charge !!!  STRANGE !! in my mind for good customer relations. SO BUYER BEWARE.

[ColinB]

I have just fitted one to a J15, it seems to be ok. There does seem to be a bit of an issue with all TTS decoders, everytime I mention the ones I have had issues with, people on this site give me a hard time. Generally, electronics is very reliable, so I don't know if the components they fit are a bit marginal coupled with some software that is not error tolerant, but I would only be speculating. 

I have just read your latest post, when mine fail, I just mail them tell them it has failed and ask for a return number. I don't tell them where I got it from it is only when I return it with the returns number that I send a copy of the original receipt.

I returned the one I bought from the model shop in Malta without any receipts, for obviouse reasons. There are enough Hornby Dealers on Ebay that probably are not going to give you a receipt. I suspect that they are beginning to realise that they have a big warranty issue on these products so are trying to reduce their liability. Go buy another decoder off EBay for another one of your locos and get a generic receipt, then you can return it. 

[96RAF]

The warranty is no quibble but does state you need the original receipt, but only to prove the date of purchase. In the end it is a Hornby product, as stated above regardless of who you bought it from.

 

I would be getting back onto them and simply asking for a returns number for a duff decoder. Yes you have the original receipt (if pushed say you think it was Hattons) and yes it was bought less than a year ago. End of story.

 

[ColinB]

The good news is I ran my J15 with the J36 TTS decoder in it for two hours backward and forwards this morning just in case. I was happy that there were no issues. On this one as space is so tight I even used the original round speaker, which in this case did fit properly in the mounting supplied in the tender. It is a bit ironic that they get it right on this model but don't actually provide a proper decoder for it, but the J36 one I assume is near enough.

[richmarsh]

 Hi, Colin and ALL

SAGA continues. Decoder bought on e-bay finally accepted for return and refund. SOOOOO, bought another on Amazon from Hornby. Recieved today (NO RECEIPT), and again same problem works if loco faces DOWN line, loco faces UP line no response with intermittent, sporadic brief sounds!!! Returned for exchange through Amazon. I HAVE ONE WORKING (purchased on e-bay) on a 4F 0-6-0. As to what I have stated re. HORNBY response IS WHAT I WAS INFORMED BY E-MAIL from Christopher Doran, Cusomer Care Assistant. Sorry but I was brought up that TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS.

[ColinB]

@richmarsh you must be incredibly unlucky, I complain about TTS decoders but I have never had as many issues as you are having. Are you absolutely sure there is nothing wrong with the wiring on the loco? It is not about not telling the truth it is just with holding certain bits. I must admit I always buy them from a recognised Dealer on EBay, just in case I have to send them back to Hornby. As a sideline I have an apology to make to RAF, they do have current limiting on the motor control. I have one that needs to go back as it has the back lights driver blown, so I thought I would try it in my Lima (it is a class 66 one). I thought if it dies then so what, and yes the TTS decoder seems to be current limiting in the fact the Lima keeps stopping and starting. With a complete short it dies, as I know from personal experience, but it appears if it is slightly above the current limit it just stops.

[96RAF]

 Hi, Colin and ALL

SAGA continues. Decoder bought on e-bay finally accepted for return and refund. SOOOOO, bought another on Amazon from Hornby. Recieved today (NO RECEIPT), and again same problem works if loco faces DOWN line, loco faces UP line no response with intermittent, sporadic brief sounds!!! Returned for exchange through Amazon. I HAVE ONE WORKING (purchased on e-bay) on a 4F 0-6-0. As to what I have stated re. HORNBY response IS WHAT I WAS INFORMED BY E-MAIL from Christopher Doran, Cusomer Care Assistant. Sorry but I was brought up that TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS.

 

Uni-directional issues are a well known, but old, decoder fault and only Hornby can reprogram the basic TTS decoder to fix it. Read CV7 and CV157 tell HCC those values when you contact them for repair. The fact you bought it via Amazon from Hornby means there is a paper trail. Amazon may not issue receipts but they do give you an order number. Tell HCC that as well. If they remain uncooperative tell them you will take the matter to Simon Kohler. 

[richmarsh]

 Hi Colin, RAF96, and all.

Where do I start. I was simply saying it best to be truthfull and not say it is from a reputable dealer when it is not. Recent decoder awaiting collection from delivery company, to be returned to SUPPLIER, Hornby. NOW, I have tried decoders in other loco's (2P 4-4-0, 4P 4-4-0, Drummond 0-6-0 all hornby and the 4F 0-6-0). All my loco's except for 1 have Hornby decoders. I have 1 J36 TTS decoder in a Hornby 4F 0-6-0 and 2 Hornby black 5s and a Bachmann Jubilee with black 5 TTS decoders, ALL working properly (touch wood). Requested a replacement, SOOO if replacement does not work I will check these CVs 7 and 157. However, since I am now dealing with Hornby I don't see the need to inform them, really, as they will recieve the defective decoder! A BIG TY FOR ALL ADVICE IT IS MUCH APPRECIETED, and it is always good to improve one's knowledge. Dealer/seller on e-bay recognised by e-bay but not Hornby. Hornby has a list of recognised dealers, check it out. I JUST WANT SOUND FOR ALL MY LOCO,S AND I WILL KEEP TRYING BUT NOT PAYING HUNDREDS LOL.

[ColinB]

On one of my locos for some reason everytime I ran it the sound turned off after a little while, I tried about 2 other TTS decoders (merchant Navy, Class 66) all with differing software versions, each did the same. Tried the offending decoder in another loco it was perfect. In the end I tracked it to be something between the 3 TTS decoders and that particular loco. There are a few posts about it on this forum. I replaced with a expensive Zimo one, worked perfect  I must admit it is the only one that has ever done it, the joke of it was that it was a factory fitted TTS, but there again if I ran it on a piece of straight track not my layout then no issues. I think it is called software, I spent years tracking down obscure bugs in my software, so I suppose with Hornby it is no different.

[richmarsh]

 Hi Colin

Hmmmm! Yes it must be software/chip, well, in my case due to them doing same in other loco's, including a loco where one does work. STRANGE ! A case where one factory worker getting it right and the rest wrong, maybe !?! Should have kept every thing in GB even if cost a few quid extra.

[richmarsh]

Hi all

GREAT NEWS ! Found the 'fault' in this decoder. Checked CV's between one's that would'nt and the one that did work. CV29 value 2 on the defective decoders, CV29 value 6 on the one that worked. Changed CV29 on the defective one AND LOW AND BEHOLD, HALLALUHIA, it worked. Why did'nt Hornby inform me of this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[96RAF]

Hi all

GREAT NEWS ! Found the 'fault' in this decoder. Checked CV's between one's that would'nt and the one that did work. CV29 value 2 on the defective decoders, CV29 value 6 on the one that worked. Changed CV29 on the defective one AND LOW AND BEHOLD, HALLALUHIA, it worked. Why did'nt Hornby inform me of this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

The difference is you have re-enabled DC running (Bit 2) which is OFF by factory default for a very good reason. Nor have you got Bit 5 selected for long addressing - if required add 32.

[Chrissaf]

TTS decoders have a habit of exhibiting 'DC Runaway'. This is why Hornby probably changed the industry standard default value of CV29 from 6 to 2. With a value of 2 'DC Operation' in the decoder is disabled. In theory, enabling / disabling 'DC Operation' should not have any effect on 'direction issues', so there would appear to be a bug in the decoder firmware [software] that is causing it. By making your decoder CV29 = 6 you may possibly see 'DC Runaway' happening, where the loco suddenly shoots off at full speed and cannot be stopped by the DCC controller.

 

EDIT: Rob posted whilst I was still typing.

[richmarsh]

 Hi RAF96 andChrissaf

TY for the info. BUT I want sound SO I will risk it but will not purchase any more of these particular sound decoders. SICK FED UP RETURNING THESE FOR REFUNDS and in HORNBY'S CASE REPLACEMENT WITH THE SAME PROBLEM. As I said I wont be purchasing any of these, and hope that the 'black 5' sound decoders are PROPERLY TESTED with the software.