Issue with Flying Scotsman powered tender

[Yates363]

Hi All

Using tested track running with another train, I've got a Flying Scotsman powered by the tender that won't run.  

However taking the top off to get to the internals and applying the current direct to the internal terminals makes the wheels spin very nicely so the path is there.

Does anyone know why the power won't travel through the wheels to the engine to power the tender and the train?

 

[Yates363]

The tender is the L.5136 version

[Going Spare]

Which version of the loco do you have?  Can you quote the catalogue R-number?  Is it UK- or China-made Does the drawbar between the loco and the tender have contacts only below the actual drawbar or both above and below?

[Yates363]

Hi and thanks for the reply

It is Made in Geat Britain- both loco and tender are marked as such.  Unfortunately I can't find an R number  which i've been looking for. 

The contacts appear to be only on the loco side below the drawing bar eye. 

If it helps discern the actual model there is a seated driver and a fireman in blue livery in the cab.

Picture of the underside of the tender in case anything is obvious.

 

I'm relatively new to the world of Hornby - due to my 6 year old being train mad, and this will be a present form Nan and Grandpa when we can get it working

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[Going Spare]

As the engine has its crew on board, I am assuming the loco was purchased secondhand.  Has it ever run since you bought it?  If it did, have you done anything to it?  Can the engine driving wheels be rotated freely by hand?

The loco is an early example of the tender-driven version and will be one of two types.  The earliest loco was fitted with vertical pick-ups bearing on the back of 1st and 3rd lefthand driving wheels looking forward from the cab.  A wire takes electricity from those two pick-ups to an insulated terminal towards the rear of the main chassis block connected to the screw securing the pony truck under the cab which comes upwards through the chassis block.  Current is taken in to the pony truck, to the drawbar and then to the tender pin and the motor.

The later version did away with the pick-ups on the engine driving wheels, electricity passing from the righthand driving wheels (which have a black plastic insulating bush between the wheel and its axle) through the chassis block to the pony truck.

Service sheets nos 131 and 131A illustrate the make-up of the loco and tender chassis: these are downloadable from the lendonsmodelshop.co.uk website as they are not included in the sheets available on this site.

Take the engine body off by removing the fixing screw above the front bogie to see which type of chassis you have.  Also check the illustrations of the tender to make sure the X1193 bridge wire is fitted.

Also make sure all wheels, pick-ups, drawbar contact jaws and tender pin are clean and that the drawbar contacts grip the tender pin tightly.  

   

[jane1707819582]

The tender is the L.5136 version

The drawbar assy can be a problem it slides on the mounting conducting via a screw , give this a clean 

[The son of Triangman]

Another issue is the main drive gear. Hornby cut costs by changing from brass to mazak main drive gear.  The mazak ones split and spin around on the armature shaft thus no drive is supplied to the tender wheels.

 

As you have drive to the wheels it could be a contact issue.  Are the loco driving wheels in the right way around?  They are insulated one side of the axle, are the drawbar contact contact wipers making contact with the tender brass pin, is the little black link wire present on the motor, are the traction tyres on the wheels slipping?  Does the loco run when pushed by hand without the tender, it has no motor in the body so should be easily pushable.

[The son of Triangman]

Tender pin and drawbar contacts look filthy in pictures.

[ColinB]

The thing to do first is apply power between the brass pin on the tender and the wheels which don't have the traction tyres. That should at least tell you whether the power to the drive is getting there. 

[Ruffnut Thorston]

The later version did away with the pick-ups on the engine driving wheels, electricity passing from the righthand driving wheels (which have a black plastic insulating bush between the wheel and its axle) through the chassis block to the pony truck.

   

Hi GS.

 

I think this is correct? 

 

 

The later Tender Drive locos, without wiper pick ups use the non insulated wheels to pick up the power, and then via the axles to the loco chassis.

 

The non insulated wheels (without the black plastic bush around the axle in the wheel) should be on the same side as the tender wheels with the traction tyres.

 

[Going Spare]

Thank you, Sarah - as ever, you are correct!  Apologies for my wrong advice.  The flow of electricity must of course not be hampered by insulation!  The path has to be from the non-insulated driving wheels to their axles and thence to the chassis block and onwards to the motor.

[ColinB]

I seem to be always saying this but when I converted mine to DCC I connected loco and tender together with a two way lead and connectors. It made them work an awful lot better.

[Going Spare]

Not everyone would be willing to embark on such an exercise: getting what they have running is their immediate task, and depending upon what is amiss, changing the electrical connection between the engine and tender may not cure the problem.