Accessory decoder or point motor issue

[Cloggie]

Hi all, first time having to ask for help so hope someone can give some pointers.  

I've about 40 points to fit so knocked up a test set up which isn't going well.
I'm using a Hornsby Elite controller and following instructions, I got a enough Hornby Digital Point and Accessory Decoders R8247 stamped 42/15 to control the points in sets of four per decoder, and a load of R8014 point motors. 

Set up using hornby instruction leaflet and YouTube video. Motors don't seem to want to respond to change of direction via selection of the Elite round control knobs 1 & 2, very intermittent response, can throw heavily one direction, little or no response other, or always wanting to throw same direction very weakly. 

I thought of putting in boosters in case it's a signal issue, but seems pointless as the current test set up is only within two foot of the Elite and everything else. 

Any one had issues with this Hornby gear? Any guidance greatly appreciated.

[Gitter]

Onthescrapheap, hi,  if you programmed on control "A"  press knob to pulse point, then press again to activate in the opposite direction. Obviously the same if you used control "B".

On second thoughts it may be press button "A" then "B" to return. 

[96RAF]

xx/15 means the R8247 were made in 2015.

 

Depending upon the revision state of the Elite firmware depends upon how the speed knobs operate points when pressed.

Early revisions (<1.41) allocate a speed knob to a point and you press once to go left and again to go right. You can allocate a different point to the right hand speed knob.

Later revisions (=>1.41) use left speed knob to go left and right speed knob to go right, obviously depending upon how the solenoids are wired directionally.

 

The main problem is the R8247 is gutless despite its internal CDU and you cannot boost the output. Boosting the signal as you put it is not possible despite the Elite Boost terminals. We can discuss boosting in another question if required.The DCC command signal will get to each R8247 without problems. It is the physical installation of the solenoid to point that causes the problem allied to the fairly weak punch of the R8247. Each point must operate freely by hand when the solenoid is mounted, whether under the boards or top mounted. If you can get the point working freely by hand then the solenoid is more likely to operate it as well.

[Cloggie]

Hi gitte, thanks for reply. 

ive looked at the wiring shown on video on YouTube showing the green wire going into the common on the digital  decoder.  Liking to experiment when things aren't going right, I've just swapped wires around. using the black and white wire from from A on the Elite, black from B to track then onto the decoder  as same, I then put point motor as + ve green, black C common, red  - ve. Hey presto  it's throwing the points correctly via the Elites  1 & 2 controls  and with power.

Beyond me how it works that way but, after hours scratching my head I'm happy.

[96RAF]

Hornby and Peco point motors use the same coloured wires but connected in different logic - all very confusing.

[Chrissaf]

Solenoid point motors that only operate in one direction can be an indicator that the Green and Black point motor wires are reversed. Hornby R8014 point motors use the Black wire as the Common return [the C terminal on the R8247 Accessory Decoder]. PECO point motors use the Green wire as the common return.

 

Many people who watch YouTube videos get rubbish information from the blind leading the blind. YouTube videos might have been presenting the PECO colour scheme, which as I have indicated above is incorrect for Hornby R8014 point motors.

 

The output of the Hornby R8247 is in my experience weak, thus the installation alignment of the point motors has to be 100% accurate. Another reason for point motors not showing robust operation in one or other direction can be caused by poor physical installation alignment.

 

EDIT: When I first started to prepare my reply, no other replies had been posted. I now see that my suspicion was correct.

 

[Cloggie]

Thanks RAF & Gitter for being there to help out! Much appreciated. 

I'll ensure the points are working easily by hand before wiring in. Think the main problem was the Elite diagram showing red on press area of connection, yet black & white striped wire, then black to other which is - ve, to track. Then on the decoder diagram, it shows red, green and black, fiollowed by an instructional video on YouTube showing black to - ve, green to common, red to + ve, yet it needed green to + ve, red to - ve. Bit confusing. keep up the good work. 

[96RAF]

The Elite to R8247 wires do not need to be colour coded, simply suitable twin core cable A-A and B-B. Polarity matching only becomes necessary if you are connecting track loop to track loop, where you indicate you are making your R8247 input connections on the layout, i.e. to the track, not direct to the Elite.

 

Once you get past the basic couple of loops layout and several points it makes sense to install an accessory bus, even if this is connected to the Elite at source.