commanderman Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I purchased this loco with tender it was described as a runner but sluggish when received it I noticed the motor was different from all my other loco,s it looks like an early Springfield ?when I tried to rotate the drive wheels on the tender they seemed jammed , I stripped the motor cleaned etc and for a second it moved a fraction, only being new to the hobby and still learning I then noticed that the loco has no pickups so the tender must pick up the power and drive the loco, on looking at the pin it /media/tinymce_upload/93af306449d0d5db0c7bf21ed507ee20.jpg, did not look like it was in contact with the left hand brass block so I put a piece of copper in between the pin and block and the loco moved so I soldered a piece of wire to the pin then into the block hoping that it would sort the problem but now it will not run at all , are there replacement motors or tenders that I could get as it's an old motor will there be any spares or running tenders out there I could replace it with I have no idea of the type of loco it is as I'm still getting used to all the bewildering amount of loco,s, and for what periods of time etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane1707819582 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 The loco picksup and relays it via the brass coupling on the rear of the loco .disconnect the wires you have soldered and apply a voltage direct to the motor connections.this will confirm a good motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony57 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 HiThe loco is a R188 B17/4 Footballer (Arsenal) made 1992, the left hand side loco wheels pick up the power and returned it via the right hand side tender wheels.It will pay you to strip the axels out of the tender and clean them of old oil grease dirt etc and apply some fresh oil as this can cause power return issues. I would test the motor by applying power to the metal brush retainers first then from the pin to the non tired side wheels then connect the loco then apply the power to the left hand side wheels and non tired side tender wheels. Have you checked the conditions of the brushes and brush springs they may need replaceing. Replacement brushes are available from the like of Peters spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 This loco appears to be something of a 'Heinz'. Not quite 57 varieties but the loco wheels look to be black whereas they should be green to match the bodywork. Although it is not 100% clear from your photograph, the tender seems to be a cobbling together of a Mainline (?) motor unit in something other than the correct chassis frame (possibly Hornby but not, I think, from a B17 - the cut-outs in the frame are the wrong size/shape) with home-made electrical connections and weights. Service sheets 110A/B downloadable from Lendonsmodelshop.co.uk show what you should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 I agree, looks like a bit of a bodge job, wrong weights, wrong wiring, wrong motor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 There was a second post starting this topic, which gave more photographs, but this seems to have disappeared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 Thank you for replying after reading yours and another reply I done the test and motor did not run. (See other replies for outcome) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 This loco appears to be something of a 'Heinz'. Not quite 57 varieties but the loco wheels look to be black whereas they should be green to match the bodywork. Although it is not 100% clear from your photograph, the tender seems to be a cobbling together of a Mainline (?) motor unit in something other than the correct chassis frame (possibly Hornby but not, I think, from a B17 - the cut-outs in the frame are the wrong size/shape) with home-made electrical connections and weights. Service sheets 110A/B downloadable from Lendonsmodelshop.co.uk show what you should have. Thank you for your reply when I received the loco and tender , even being new to the hobby I did think that it was not right and looked odd but it run a bit but then packed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 HiThe loco is a R188 B17/4 Footballer (Arsenal) made 1992, the left hand side loco wheels pick up the power and returned it via the right hand side tender wheels.It will pay you to strip the axels out of the tender and clean them of old oil grease dirt etc and apply some fresh oil as this can cause power return issues. I would test the motor by applying power to the metal brush retainers first then from the pin to the non tired side wheels then connect the loco then apply the power to the left hand side wheels and non tired side tender wheels. Have you checked the conditions of the brushes and brush springs they may need replaceing. Replacement brushes are available from the like of Peters spares. Hi thank you for your reply, I stripped down the motor the first time and did not pull out the centre as it was very difficult to release, after your reply I went back to it and managed to get the centre out and I've got to say the bushes springs and interior were in a very poor state, I had spare new brushes but not the right size springs I managed to cut down two springfield motor springs gave it all a good clean put it back together and it runs as it should do no problems there, I then put it to the loco and no movement on the track if I put the power to the tender brushes it moved takeaway the loco do the same it moved so I've won half the battle, just need to work out why the tender does not work when put on to the loco and even if I put power to the track the tender with loco will not move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Depending, of course, upon how the seller described it, I would return it, as I think only the correct replacement units will achieve satisfactory performance and ebay sellers, for example, are asking £40 for a tender drive and chassis frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 There was a second post starting this topic, which gave more photographs, but this seems to have disappeared? I binned it as this post had repeated the same and more pictures and the words were identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 Hi every one who has replied to my post I have managed to get the tender sorted and is running well but only if I put power straight to the brushes both on and off the track, rather than reply to each individual I will do it in one go to all.I got the loco for a reasonable price and just wanted a loco to go with some coaches, once I received it I tried it ran for a couple of seconds it then stopped when i took the tender body off I could see that it didn't look right even to a beginner like me but I thought I would give it a go, I stripped it down but could not get the centre out so I cleaned it as best I could still no result then opened the blog and followed the advice I went back to the tender motor (Airfix)and stripped it again this time getting the centre out and as I have said it was not in a good state gave it a good clean up replaced the brushes and replaced the springs with two Springfield motor springs cut to length and it now runs well, when I put power to brushes straight onto the track with the loco it won't run, put power to the brushes it runs the tender will only run off the track or on the track with the power put to the brushes so half the battle won. I am trying to work it out, the pin to the loco does not have any contact to anything so if the pick up has to come from the loco and over to the tender wheels then it must connect to something for this to happen ? all a learning curve and all lessons learned will help me n the future with the hobby so I'm determined to get it on the rails (have I posted it right this time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 Hi Mr moderator hopefully I have posted in the right way please bare with me I'm not to good with technology(I still play the PlayStation 1) I have had my train set for over 30 years(being in the forces 22 years didn't help) and it never really seen the light of day I'm chuffed to bits there is this forum for me turn to for help which I did with my first issue with my Flying Scotsman hopefully I will get this one resolved as well many thanks to all who have helped or will help in the past, present and possibly future posts happy New year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 In your photograph you can see the drawbar jutting out below the cab. The phosphor-bronze jaw contacts on the underside of the drawbar clamp round the brass pin projecting downwards at the front of the tender chassis frame on a Hornby tender. This takes electricity from the lefthand driving wheels on the loco (via the chassis block) to the tender motor. Electricity returns to the track (when a Hornby tender is used) via the righthand, untyred, tender wheels. The wire from the tender pin should connect directly to the righthand brush retainer and the lefthand brush retainer should be connected to the motor block thence to the non-insulated wheels as per Hornby service sheet 110A. When you say the loco will not run when the tender is connected, is this because it creates a short-circuit causing the controller to shut down or is it open-circuit with no complete electrical circuit through the loco and tender from one rail to the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Hi going spareThank you for your reply, have tested the loco and tender together I put the power to the L/H side( looking at the underneath 4 wheel boogie at the top) loco wheels and then to the non tyred tender wheels and they ran , on looking at the motor the right hand bush is connected to the underneath in the centre of the plate and the left hand bush is connected to the brass block (looking directly at the motor bushes as in photo)no connection to the pin , would it be worth soldering a wire directly to the pin from the left hand bush (you can see in the photo ,I have removed the blue wire since) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Hi mr moderator I think I'm getting the hang of it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Hi mr moderator I think I'm getting the hang of it now 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commanderman Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 Hi going spare I have finally cracked it I put a small piece of copper between the pin and left hand block and it's all up and running, I am so grateful thank you to every body with their help and suggestions, I will stick with this tender for now and when the budget allows I will may get the right tender. it's been an experience that I have enjoyed and abit more experience learned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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