Guide to various eras

[Potrail2378]

Hi, although I like to run my own stuff on my own layout, I would like some sort of authentic running from time to time. Is there a website/page where I can find out what era my loco's and coaches belong to?

For example, can I run my Flying Scotsman with my Blood and Custard coaches? Also, can I run my class 37 with the same Blood and Custard coaches?

Any help on eras would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[ellocoloco]

Hi Potbus,

You can search the Hornby online catalogue by era - Era :: Hornby Hobbies - which should be a good place to start.

[Bulleidboy]

A rough guide:

1. 1804-1875 Pioneering
2. 1875-1922 Pre grouping
3. 1923-1947 The big four: LMS, GWR, LNER and SR
4. 1948-1956 British Railways early emblem
5. 1957-1966 British Railways late crest
6. 1967- 1971 British Rail blue Pre-TOPS
7. 1971-1982 British Rail blue TOPS
8. 1982-1994 British Rail sectorisation
9. 1995-Onwards Post privatisation

[LCDR]

Remember too that eras overlap. It can take up to five years for a repaint the majority of trains into the new colours, and even then odd examples can linger on.

I took this picture of a class 20 still in green livery in 1975 at Avenue sidings south of Chesterfield nearly 8 years after BR started repainting diesel locomotives blue.

And this one at York in the same year.

Moderator note: LC you may have received a reject mail. This was because you posted this twice and the duplicate was rejected to leave this one approved.

[5Dublo2]

One thing to bear in mind when looking at eras is that the livery and number on the loco may change the era.

For instance Flying Scotsman in LNER Apple Green numbered as 4472 would actually be a different era then the same loco in BR Brunswick Green with smoke deflectors and numbered as 60103. Technically numbered as 4472 in Apple Green with two tenders, a cowcatcher and a bell on the front would be a different era (and country) again.

If a loco received a BR number then you can lookup the loco (with either BR or older numbers) using the Quick Search box at:

BRDatabase - the Complete British Railways Locomotive Database 1948-1997

Once you have a list of loco records, you can click on the links in the Number column and it will open up a specific record for that loco, and this then gives details of key dates (including when numbers changed)

Moderator note: Link made clickable.

[Going Spare]

I have found there to be more of a problem with rolling stock. Locomotive eras are catered for but, to use Potbus's enquiry, it is less easy determining when in the British Railways eras 4 and 5 do 'blood & custard' coaches fit. Early 1950s through to when? An early crest locomotive would be ok with them but how far, if at all, in to the late crest era? Or did the change to maroon/chocolate & cream/green for coaching stock coincide with the transition from early to late crests? Similarly there were subtle changes to van and wagon liveries/markings which needs considerable research to be accurate.

[LCDR]

To clarify my earlier post, the start dates given for eras in the list above should not be regarded as a date when everything changed, but the date when examples of the new liveries might be seen on a few items of rolling stock. As the era progresses year by year the number of vehicles in the new livery will be seen in greater numbers.

BR blue was introduced in 1965 / 1966 but I was using Southern Region trains in 1971 to go to college and most of them were still green.

Small changes were quicker to take hold. The re-numbering of diesel and electric locomotives with TOPS number happened very quickly and locomotives still in green (pre 1966 livery) in 1971 were given their new numbers long before being repainted blue.

The change from early emblem to late crest for steam locomotives took a long time and many locomotives went to the scrap yard in 1962 still wearing the old 'cycling lion' emblem.

Things also got tricky in the 'Big 4' era (Era 3) because during this time the Big 4 companies changes liveries and numbering at least once.

Taking the Southern Railway as an example, from 1923 until 1931 the numbers of SR locomotives remained the same as Era 2 (pre-grouping), but a prefix letter was painted above the number to distinguish duplicates. So ex SE&CR locomotives and locomotives built to Ashford designs had a letter A, Ex LB&SCR locomotives and locomotives built to Brighton designs received a letter B, and ex LSWR and locomotives built to Eastleigh designs were lettered E.

In 1931 it was decided to re-number the locomotives, and so all locomotives prefixed A had 1000 added to their number, all locomotives prefixed B had 2000 added to their numbers. The Eastleigh numbered locomotives lost their prefix. (Except locomotives on the Isle of Wight which retained a W prefix!).

In 1938 R E L Maunsell retired as CME but before he did the Southern decided to replace his dark olive green livery with a brighter Malachite green. The application of this brighter livery was overseen by his successor O V S Bulleid but before the change could be widely applied World War 2 intervened, and by 1941 many locomotives were appearing in plain black, and it wasn't until 1946 before full malachite green repaints appeared once again.

Lettering changed during the War with 'Sunshine' lettering replacing the Maunsell serif style.

Others of the Big 4 had similar changes during their existence. Notably there was a distinct change between Fowler and Stanier on the LMSR, and between Gresley and Thompson on the LNER. The LNER in 1946 started wholesale re-numbering their entire fleet of locomotives. This meant 4472 became 103 and 4468 became 22.

The Era guide should be treated with a great deal of caution, because the situation regarding liveries was highly dynamic.

[Potrail2378]

OK, thanks for all your valuable comments and support.

Just one further question though - What era would you class the 'Hogwarts Express' as?

It's not a trick question, as I have a Hornby Hogwarts Express. I also have four maroon coaches to go with it.

[Peter Stiles]

When it comes to Hogwart's Express the rake we have from Hornby represents the loco as shown in the firms, which to all intents and purposes are contemporary with their date of filming (as evinced by examining the muggle-base scenes). First film being 2001 that counts as Hornby Era 9; best to treat it as a Heritage railway in that case:)

As the coaches are MKIs, its possible that they could represent a train as early as 1951 and so Era 4.

The loco itself dates from Era 3 (according to the lore) and so, with suitably repainted LMS coaches, could be included on a layout from that time period.

So with no modifications you could use the Hornby Hogwart's express from Era 4 to "now".

sorry all.

[LCDR]

Harry Potter films are entirely fiction, as too is the train. The locomotive used in the film is of Great Western origin but has been repainted by the film company into a maroon livery which no self respecting GWR locomotive would ever be seen dead in! The locomotive is in fact GW number 5972, proper name Olton Hall -(other locomotives have been used occasionally) - which was built in 1937, and would have run in green livery on the GWR, and on BR until withdrawn about 1964.

The carriages are BR mark 1 some of which did run in maroon livery, but this was post 1957 maroon so not at all appropriate for LMS period. Mark 1 carriages were introduced in 1950 two years after the LMSR was abolished. Until 1957 all BR mark 1 corridor carriages were painted in crimson and cream (blood & custard), so era 4 is a no-no.

With both the locomotive and the carriages in inappropriate liveries for real life, the train is best kept for a fantasy layout, except for Eras 9, 10 and 11 when you could include a film crew making another episode .