Programing points in DCC

[Scratcher]

I have a Select controller. I am trying to control points. Every time I try to address either a Lenz 6 way Decoder or a Cobalt point motor I get eight flashes and cannot complete the address. What is the procedure please?

[Chrissaf]

I can't comment on the Lenz but the Cobalt is a 'self learning' decoder. I would not be surprised if the Lenz was not a 'self learning' decoder as well.

Your reference to flashing LEDs indicates that you are trying to set the addresses using the Select documented method for Hornby Accessory Decoders.

Those instructions are ONLY applicable to Hornby decoders and are completely inapplicable for 'Self Learning' decoders.

You need to ignore the Hornby manuals and follow the instructions that come with the decoders.

If you state the actual decoder products from Lenz and DCC Concepts (Cobalt) you are using then more detailed instruction can be given.

Typically, these 'self learning' products have a method to put in learning mode. This might be a switch or two metallic pins that need shorting. Once in 'learning mode' you send the DCC Address from the controller that you want to use and the decoder then learns it. Subject to which Colbalt product you are actually using, then there might be some additional tasks that need to be completed.

[96RAF]

Adding to what Chris has said, when setting up these self learning decoders you still need to select and send the point address number you want it to learn and this address must be within the Select points range of 61-99.

e.g. initiate self learning, select your desired point address (say 61) and press the direction arrow on the Select for the required throw direction. Repeat for the next point decoder.

[Scratcher]

The actual decoders that I am trying to address are the Cobalt iP digital point motor and the Lenz LS150 6 way decoder operating Peco point motors, two of each, on addresses 61 to 75. Many thanks for your interest.

[Chrissaf]

Both the DCC Concepts and Lenz LS150 are 'Self Learning' decoders.

You say you have two of each products. The LS150 is factory defaulted to DCC addresses 1 to 6. This means that all your LS150 and iP Digitals will need to be re-addressed to comply with the 61 to 99 addressing range supported by the Hornby Select.

I suggest that the following addressing scheme is implemented. This implementation will form the basis of my documented instruction guidance. If you decide to devise your own addressing scheme then use my guidance as an example to follow for your own scheme.

1. LS150 number one is given addresses 61 to 66
2. LS150 number two is given addresses 67 to 72
3. iP Digital number one is given address 73
4. iP Digital number two is given address 74

LENZ LS150 Accessory Decoder.

The instructions below are based upon the instructions printed on page 12 of the LS150 manual.

1. Choose the point address which you wish to set the first output of the LS150 to. In this case either address 61 for the first LS150 or address 67 for the second LS150. The LS150 needs to be connected to the track output of the Select controller, either directly or via the final wiring solution you choose to implement.
2. Press the push-button on the LS150 and keep it down until the LED shines continuously (this will take approx. 3 sec.). Release the push-button. The LED remains turned on and the LS150 changes from the normal operating mode into the setting [learning] mode. Output 1 of the LS150 will now adopt the address of the first point operating command it receives. In this case either address 61 for the first LS150 or address 67 for the second LS150.
3. Proceed as if you wanted to activate the point motor of the selected point address by pressing the necessary keys on your NMRA DCC system. In other words, you operate the Hornby Select controller as if you want to operate a point using either [in this case, address 61 or address 67] - see note immediately below this four item list.
4. The point address received via the accessory decoder point operating command is now allocated to output 1 of the LS150. Outputs 2 to 6 are automatically set to the following point addresses. In this case, output 2 to output 6 will automatically be assigned addresses 62 to 66 OR addresses 68 to 72 depending upon whether address 61 OR address 67 was sent from the Select. You can tell that the setting was effected when the LED turns off and the point operating command is carried out, i.e. the corresponding Accessory decoder LS150 output point motor (if connected) is activated. The LS150 now returns to the normal operating mode.

NOTE. It is assumed that the Select is a relatively new purchase and has firmware release version 1.5 or higher installed. The firmware version is displayed as the very first number to be very briefly displayed on screen when it is powered up, expect this to be a number between 10 and 20. Number 15 indicates firmware version 1.5.

So assuming version 15 or higher, to send the Operate Address [in this case example 61], you type the number 6 followed by 1 followed by a brief press of the 'Select' button. The number 61 should now be displayed on the screen. Now press either the left or right arrow button and the Select will now send a DCC Accessory Packet command containing DCC address 61.

The LS150 having previously been put in 'learning' mode is listening to the DCC command packets being sent from the Select. This means that the LS150 will listen and hear the DCC command containing DCC Address 61 and adopt that DCC Address to configure to the first output. The LS150 outputs 2 to 6 will automatically be configured with DCC Addresses 62 to 66. Upon receiving and adopting this DCC Address, the LS150 will revert itself back to normal operating mode and be ready to oerate any point motors attached to it using the 61 to 66 addresses.

Repeat the process for the second LS150 but this time using DCC Address 67.

iP Digtial DCC Point motor.

Early DCC Concepts iP Digital point motors left the factory with 'self centering' enabled. You will know if you have an early iP Digital point motor because when it is connected to DCC track power the operating rod will move to the centre of travel position. If this happens then the motor is NOT COMPATIBLE with a Hornby Select controller. This is because you can't use the iP Digital point motor until the 'self centering' is disabled. To disable 'self centering' you have to send DCC Address 198 from the controller. This 198 address is OUTSIDE the 61-99 supported range of the Select controller.

If when powered up, the operating rod stays or moves to one side or the other, then 'self centering' is not enabled and you will be able to operate the iP Digital with a Select controller, but will lose the easier installation benefit that 'self centering' gives with regard to installing the iP Digital with the optimum physical alignment. iP Digital point motors also use DCC Address 197 to optionally reverse the direction of throw. So again, your Select will not be able to invoke that technical configuration option as the 197 DCC Address is outside the Select supported 61 to 99 range.

To set the DCC Address of the first iP Digital point motor. In this case DCC Address 73, the iP Digital point motor needs to be wired to the track output of the Select, either directly or via the final wiring solution you choose to implement. The iP Digital has a switch on it labelled 'Set / Run'. This switch needs to be moved to the 'Set' position to put the iP Digital into 'learning' mode. Then on the Select you send the DCC Address you want to configure. In this case DCC Address 73 for the first iP Digital OR DCC Address 74 for the second iP Digital. Use the same Select procedure for sending this address as documented previously for address 61, but of course substituting the DCC Address you want to send i.e 73 OR 74.

Now restore the switch position from the 'Set' position to the 'Run' position.

The next time the operate command for the iP Digital is sent from the controller [either address 73 or 74] then the appropriate iP point motor should respond and operate.

That's all there is to it. The process may sound complicated when written in text form, but is very simple to implement in the real world. Note that at no time was it necessary to follow any 'Accessory Decoder' programming guidance as instructed in the Select manual.

THIS IS A VERY LONG REPLY. PLEASE DO NOT CLICK THE BLUE BUTTON TO REPLY. Please use either the 'Reply' box at the bottom of the page to reply, or click the three vertical dots in the top right and chose the top 'Reply' option.

[Scratcher]

Chrissaf, thank you very much for this great instruction.

The Lenz 6-way works well but not the iP Digital. I did take these motors to my local DCC shop and asked if they could release the centralisation. They handed them back saying they thought the motors did not require releasing and I took them back. However I get no reaction from the motors at all. Any other thoughts please. Thanks a lot.

[96RAF]

I can only refer you back to Chris’ advice and ask them to send address 198 to disable centring as your own controller cannot do that. Your shop may not be aware of that methodology. Print out the post above to show them.

[Chrissaf]

As you have a Select, I did not document the FULL removing 'self centering' instructions.

Full instructions for removing 'self centering' on iP Digital point motors.

Put the Set / Run switch in the 'Set' position and then use a capable DCC controller to send the DCC Address 198 to remove 'self centering', return the switch to the 'Run' position, you then have to follow up that action by POWER CYCLING the iP Digital point motor before you try to configure a DCC Address. Do not be hesitant when power cycling the iP Digital point motor, being hesitant with disconnecting and connecting physical wires may produce sparks and sparks can potentially corrupt the iP Digital configuration. It is better to initially leave the DCC track power wires connected to the motor and use the controller power switch to cycle the power, with the main power switched off, then disconnect and reconnect the wires from the iP Digital. Doing it this way, ensures that there is no latent voltage still slowly discharging from the controller power circuits. After power cycling, you can then continue with the configuration of the DCC Address process using the Run / Set switch which needs to be put back in the 'Set' position. If you do not include the power cycling stage, then the iP Digital will not accept its new address using the Run / Set switch. After setting the address, you return the switch to the 'Run' position. This time 'power cycling' is not required.

There did not seem any need to document the full process, as you couldn't send the 198 Address from the Select. Note that if you upgrade your Select to a different controller that is capable of sending DCC Addresses 197 to 199, then these addresses can not be used as normal point operating addresses. This is because these three addresses are reserved for these special iP Digital point motor configuration command uses.

I would also strongly advise that you ask the shop to configure the two DCC Addresses you want to configure and demonstrate them working on those addresses using their controller. There is forum history of some DCC Concepts iP Digital point motors having issues being configured by some Hornby controllers. This seems to be a bit of a lottery that depends upon which firmware is installed in the iP Digital and/or controller, as many forum members use Hornby controllers with iP Digitals without issue. As your iP Digitals are not 'self centering' disabled, then it is logical to assume that these are older DCC Concepts motors and may have earlier firmware.

What firmware version does your Select have?

Firmware version is the very first number to briefly appear on the Select screen as it is powered up. Expect to see a number between 10 and 20.

[Scratcher]

Select firmware, number 15, followed by 30. Thanks

[Chrissaf]

That Select firmware should be good for iP Digitals. From your posts, it does look as if you have some old stock early firmware iP Digitals, else 'self centering' would have been factory disabled.

[96RAF]

Select V1.5 allows control of all functions F0-F28 inclusive, but will not allow CVs to be changed, for that you need V1.6 or V2.0.

[Chrissaf]

My previous reply originally posted on the 11th October on page 1 of this thread has been edited to include a lot more detail.

[96RAF]

It would appear these motors are temperamental as I have seen a FB post about a work around when using DCC Concepts Alpha kit and electrofrog points with them. If their own motors require special handling with their own kit then Hornby integration is likely to be problematic.

Have a look here

[Chrissaf]

The solution described in the video is an Electrofrog powering solution that I have previously documented on this forum. It is a basic DCC power issue when using PECO Electrofrogs that would be present when a separate DCC Accessory Bus was also being used to power iP Digital point motors, regardless of the controller brand being used. I therefore don't see this as being specifically a Hornby controller issue. Even though the video presenter expressed a view that not only he, but also other 'so called' DCC experts couldn't understand what was causing the issue. For me and my digital electronics background, it was totally obvious what was the cause and what the solution was. If the search function on this forum was more effective, I could probably find my previous posted replies documenting the same solution that is presented in the video. Bearing in mind, that this thread is not proposing the use of Electrofrog points nor a separate DCC accessory bus, then the OP of this thread can safely ignore the content of these last few posts as being somewhat irrelevant.

This however does not detract from the fact that iP Digital point motors can be tempremental which I suspect was the point that Rob was making.