Hornby Flying Scotsman - Service sheet 204 RingField Wheel set X8226 Alternative

[Deem]

Hello to everyone

I acquired a used but non runner Hornby Flying Scotsman Tender driven model with ringfield motor (I assuming this model will have 5 Pole version but won't be sure until I disassemble tonight), service sheet 204 and I need wheel set part number X8226. I have looked every where nobody seem to have in stock.

I need wisdom of my fellow modellers to direct which other part numbers will have same wheel set or model have same wheel set so I can buy those and have my Loco up and running again.

Thanks in advance

Regards

[Tony57]

Hi Deem

You should have a 3 pole ringfield motor according to service sheet 204

It appears that the wheels are the standard spoked ringfield motor wheels, the question is are the tender wheels you are after black or green?

If black any spoked set of wheels for a tender mounted ringfield motor will fit, if green then you have a problem so could be a paint job on a black set

At the time you loco was made Hornby had a policy of standardisation use the same parts in as many locos as possible.

[Deem]

@Tony57

Thanks for your reply, I have black wheel set and one outer rim have came of inner wheel hence the reason I want to change the whole wheel set, I would be grateful if I could have few part numbers which have same wheel set with gear on the inner wheel.

Regards

[Going Spare]

Before buying any new wheels, establish for sure whether it is a 3-pole or 5-pole tender drive because the wheels are not interchangeable.

If it is a 3-pole drive, the wheel's metal tyre can usually be pushed back on to the plastic hub with your fingers, possibly using a small amount of glue to ensure it stays in place.

The wheels on 5-pole drives are not always so obliging!

[Deem]

@Going Spare

Thanks for your advice, I follow your instruction and Rim did slide on to Plastic hub with little persuasion, now I have install the traction tyres and Tender is running after full service nicely, I am going to give full service to Loco and hopefully tonight I will have fully running Hornby Chinese made - Tender driven 5 Pole Motor (correction it is 3 Flying Scotsman.

Regards

[Deem]

Further Updates,

This was acquired from eBay as non runner, pictures shows the condition. After roughly couple of hours slow service another loco been saved.

[Deem]

After Full service

This is what it looks like, little bit erratic at the moment but I think after run in it will run smoothly, otherwise I will have to change the Tender wheel for better contact and maybe - maybe Loco wheels as well. Time will tell.

[ColinB]

When you take it apart, if it has black coloured driving pinions/gears it is a 3 pole, if they are grey it is a 5 pole. That is the easy way to know. If it is the same as A4s, you can only tell by the model number which one Hornby used. I assume the really late ones used the 5 pole. The wheels on this will probably be different to the early ringfield motor types even if it is a 3 pole.

[Deem]

@ColinB

Thanks for your info, I have black pinion gear for sure, and just took picture to confirm what you have been saying, it is 3 Pole motor.

Thanks again.

Regards

[Going Spare]

Service Sheet 220 is the one for your loco as it has wiper pick-ups on the tender wheels. If the loco continues to run erratically, check that the sprung washer is making good contact between the loco chassis block and the pony truck frame, often a problem area as the bolt holding the pony truck on can not give a consistent electrical path by itself.

[Deem]

@Going Spare

I have looked every where in Hornby Guide with service sheet I can't seem to find one?

Closest I can find which have similar or exactly same parts is 217B,

http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=296

Regards

[Going Spare]

Go to the 'Useful Links' sticky post at the top of this General Discussion section, scroll down that post to the 'Service Sheets' section and click on 'Lendons of Cardiff'. When their website listing opens, scroll down to 'Hornby Service Sheets' and click on the icon which will open a complete list of Tri-ang/Hornby service sheets. Click on the sheet you need, in this case, 220.

Sheet 217 is for the Super-Detail version of the loco which has detail differences from yours, etched rather than pressed 2-piece coupling rods and valvegear for example.

[Fishmanoz]

Deem, for future reference, the “brass weight” is a flywheel.

In later models, Hornby went from 5-pole skew-wound motors to 3-pole plus flywheel. Presumably it’s a cost not a performance change.

[Deem]

@Going Spare

You are correct, I had serviced few these Scotsman and I mixing them from newer to older or older to newer. Service Sheet 220 is correct Service Sheet for Flying Scotsman Chinese made with All 6 wheels pickups (very Fiddly wheel bearing which are kept in chassis with bottom chassis cover) with 2 wires from Loco going to Tender with Close Coupling Assembly for Tender Driven motor with 4 pickups in Tender Body as well with 3 Pole Motor.

[ColinB]

I am hoping you put the screwed the pony truck on properly, it isn't in the second photo. The connector to the tender is being used as the pivot and the pivot is being used as the drawbar. That would definitely explain poor running.

[Deem]

@ColinB

That's the first thing I did as soon as I received the Loco because I knew when I bought the Loco. I believe that poor running is down to Tender Wheel is not straight which came off the hub, Outer Rim is sitting straight on Hub but gear inside making wheel wobble, I have tried to check various holes and pins on gear and they only will fit in one place but wheel still wobble when tested without mounting in Chassis. I have looked various set of wheel numbers and none of them in stock, for example X8421- X8422 - X8772. Also I believe that Close Coupling is another issued, but in my opinion Tender should be able to run on its own as it is getting pickups from 4 wheels in the tender but Tender won't run without Loco attached.

Regards

[Deem]

Hello everyone

I am still hoping someone could advise me which wheels to buy with part number because as I mentioned previously, all part numbers from service sheet aren't available anywhere.

Regards

[Going Spare]

The problem is that Hornby do not publicly identify individual wheels and axles in a Chinese-made pack so if the complete pack is not obtainable, you would have to rely upon quizzing potential suppliers to see what suitable wheels & axles or wheelsets they may have but do not advertise.

I can not remember whether UK-made wheels will fit securely on to Chinese axles (Chinese axles are a slightly smaller diameter than the UK axle so UK axles will not fit the axle bearings of the Chinese motor block you have) but it may be that UK bearings can be substituted in a Chinese motor block - two more questions to pose to a supplier. The UK axle bearing is S2374.

If UK wheels/wheelsets can be used, what you need are: S2465AGN (non-insulated fully-flanged disc wheels) x 2, X1140AGN (semi-flanged disc wheelset) x 1 and X1144AGN (insulated, grooved disc wheels) x 2, plus M1144 tyre x 2 if the grooved wheels do not have them fitted (or pack of 10 tyres X8030). The tender pick-ups should function perfectly well with UK wheels.

Peters Spares have all these items in stock but do not state whether their S2374 axle bearings are for UK or Chinese axles/motor blocks.

[Deem]

@Going Spare

Grateful for your input, I have written to a few suppliers about the actual size with your wheel numbers to verify if they are same size as the ones I need, will update later once I have responses.

Regards.