Cannot add recently purchased (second user) loco

[seiko1347]

Just joined the Hornby forum, I did not know it existed, which probably confirms my level of expertise or lack thereof! 

I recently purchased via eBay, a Hornby R1236 Class 08 diesel shunter (DCC fitted). Before purchase, the eBay seller, confirmed the unit was fully working. Despite my best efforts I am unable to 'add it', using my R8213 Select Unit.

My lack of knowledge is such, I do not understand how the Select Unit would recognise it, the first time I put it on the track, given it would previously have been assigned a number elsewhere. Any assistance would be appreciated.  

[Chrissaf]

In order to help with an answer, the forum needs you to advise what version of firmware is installed in your Select controller.

The firmware version is displayed as the very first number to briefly appear on the screen as the Select is powered up. Expect to see a number between 10 & 20 and then followed by the number 30 before finally displaying the number 03.

It is the first number between 10 & 20 that the forum needs to be advised of.

Once we know what firmware is installed, then we can give guidance with regard what buttons to press in what order and whether you can reset this second hand loco purchase decoder to its factory default settings.

As this is your very first post on this forum, please note that it is preferred if any reply is made using the 'Reply Text Box' at the bottom of the page and clicking the green 'Post Reply' button.

[ColinB]

Before you can run any DCC loco with a decoder in it, you need to know its DCC address. Now if the Seller didn't give it to you, then you need to find it. Normally the default number is 3. I am not an expert on the Select controller, I have an Elite, but on the Elite you put the unit into programming mode with the loco on the programming track and use the read address facility, alternatively as you only have two locos program the address to be something different to your first loco. You then control the extra loco using its address. Chrissaf needs to know the software level in your Select unit so he can tell what it will or will not do. Yes it is a shame that you can't put the loco on the track and the controller works out which locos exist and lets you set the speed on them, but currently I don't think there is a controller that will do that.

[Fishmanoz]

Colin and Christopher, while it’s helpful to know the current address, it is not essential. The reasons are:

• you can write your own address, without knowing what the current address is. Simply put the loco on a track connected to your Select and follow the change address instructions, making sure there is nothing else on the track or you will change everything to the address you write (Colin, there is no separate programming output on a Select, so many just write addresses on the layout with everything else removed); or
• first write 8 to CV8 o reset the decoder to default with address 03. You can then test it on 03 before changing it to your preferred address. But only Selects with latest firmware can write CVs

So the reason behind Chrissaf’s madness in asking the firmware version question is to find out what your Select can do, then give you the appropriate instructions for doing it with the firmware version you have.

[96RAF]

Just to add to the above, the Select at any firmware revision state cannot read back any values, only write them.

As stated simply write a new address to your ‘new’ loco. As it is a Class 08 then giving it address 8 would help you remember it later.

If you do not have the user manual for your Select you can download it from the support pages of the main site, noting there are two versions (early and later) plus an addendum if you have the latest firmware.

https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/sections/360004186739-Hornby-Digital

[ColinB]

@Fishmanoz, I think if you read my post that was what I suggested doing if you don't know the address. I didn't know though that you couldn't read values back from the decoder using a Select, that is a major limitation. Having said that I was using my Elite on my main layout because of the issue of the new decoder not accepting the reverse command. I was amazed, considering my Fleishmann is obsolete, it is streets ahead of the Elite for controlling trains. The Elite also has an annoying habit that if it sees a short, occasionally it comes back with no DCC output, so you have to turn it off then on again.

[Chrissaf]

The "Escape" button on the Elite resets the power output after a short, there should be no need to recycle the input power.

Should you know this and you have been using the "Escape" button, but still don't see the power coming back, then I suggest it is the button contacts not making contact reliably that is the problem.

[seiko1347]

Delighted by the responses - thank you all, they will take a while to read through. In respect of the firmware level - 20 appears when the Select is switched on.

We now have a 'gremlin' introduced itself, in that one of my two existing units now brings up EO on the screen when I attempt to run it. Let's leave that until later and maybe a different post?

[ColinB]

Actually Chrissaf, I know all that. It is just occasionally if you keep getting a short you press the Escape button, then having cleared the fault, the screen returns to normal but there is no DCC output. Power off then on and it all starts working again. It is ok, I have returned its use to programming only.

[Chrissaf]

@Christopher

As you have firmware 20 [version 2.0].

Then you can write a value of 8 to CV8 with that firmware version. This will perform a factory reset of the second hand purchased loco. This factory reset should revert the DCC Address of the decoder to 03, which is the loco address that the Select will power up to initially, as well as restoring any other decoder CV configuration settings that the previous owner may have changed. For example, the previous owner may have configured a 'Long Address' which the Select can not handle.

You can then test the loco using this 03 DCC Address to confirm that it is operating correctly, before changing the address to something else and unique between 01 and 59 which is the limited DCC Address range supported by the Select.

Just remember that the Select broadcasts programming commands, so it is best if the track output of the Select is temporarily connected to a spare length of very clean track for the programming and testing activity. Being a "broadcast", any and all decoders that are electrically visible to the Select track output will respond to the programming command and could be accidently factory reset in error. Using a separate track piece can help eliminate this potential error from happening.

[96RAF]

@colin

As Chris has explained the Select only has a track output and is effectively programming on the main i.e. in Operate mode, thinly disguised as normal service mode programming, hence it cannot read-back CV values and as Chris says in such broadcast mode unless a loco address is specified (which you can’t) as in true PoM then everything in ear-shot takes notice of and reacts to any programming commands, hence the advice to configure a separate programming track.

[ColinB]

I assume most of the limitations of the Select is that the display would have difficulty displaying the data. I guess it was designed as a cheap DCC controller to get people into using DCC with a view to them upgrading to an Elite or something more powerful later.

[96RAF]

@Colin

Select is a 2-digit display which limits what it can show but the Hornby firmware boffins managed to work around a way of handling 3-digit CVs and their values up to 255, by way of a long press on the hundred digit (1oo or 2oo) which then flashes and allows the tens (1o to 9o) and units (1-9) values to be entered.

This of course does not help provide any loco addresses above 59 as this is where the Select drifts off NMRA standards and allocates 1-59 as loco addresses then the firmware fiddles the addressing binary format to use 61-99 as pukka accessory addresses.

[seiko1347]

Many thanks to Chrissaf and others for your continuing support. Followed your advice Chrissaf and reset the DCC address on the unit to 03. Tried to get it to run but it will not move. At best and only occasionally, it makes a low humming noise. So, clearly, it is trying to do something. Unless you good chaps have any other ideas it looks as if I need to go back to the eBay seller.

[Chrissaf]

I am assuming [based upon what you have written so far] that you probably do not have access to a Multimeter.

If you do, then I would put the meter into reading resistance mode, unplug the decoder then use the meter to make some basic continuity diagnostic checks.

If the decoder socket is 8 pins.

With the decoder unplugged there should be a low resistance reading between pins 1 and 5 on the decoder socket in the loco [1 and 5 go to the motor].

There should be no resistance reading across any other decoder socket pins. Particularly between pins 1 and 8 and also between pins 4 and 5.

If this diagnostic check fails, then the indication is that the socket in the loco is either miswired or has some kind of wire shorting fault. If a meter reads anything between 1 and 8 or 4 and 5, then this socket fault is very likely to have damaged the decoder. For information pins 4 and 8 go to the wheel pickups, thus a meter should indicate a near zero resistance between 8 and one side pickup wheels and between 4 and the other side wheel pickups. Pin 1 on the socket is usually indicated by a dot or a triangle, and pins 2 to 8 number anti-clockwise from the pin 1 location.

With the decoder removed, cross connect pin 1 to pin 8 and pin 4 to pin 5 on the loco decoder socket then test the loco on a DC supply [a fully charged brand new 9 volt battery for example]. If the wheels turn on the DC supply, then that indicates that the decoder is faulty. If the wheels still do not turn then the fault is within the loco [or if using a battery, the battery is not fully charged].

If the decoder socket is 4 pins.

As the loco is an 08 shunter, then the socket may not be 8 pins, but 4 pin instead. In which case the two inner pins should go to the motor and the two outer pins go to the wheel pickups. The 4 pin decoder sockets do not usually have the kind of socket wiring faults found on the 8 pin socket types.

If the loco socket is indeed 4 pins, then remove the decoder and connect pin 1 to pin 2 and then pin 3 to pin 4 on the loco socket [doesn't matter which end of the socket you count the pins from]. With those pin cross connections made, the loco should run on a DC supply [a fully charged brand new 9 volt battery for example]. If the wheels turn on the DC supply, then that indicates that the decoder is faulty. If the wheels still do not turn then the fault is within the loco [or if using a battery, the battery is not fully charged].

Where the diagnostic checks outlined above indicate that the decoder is faulty, then this assumes that you are using the Select controller correctly and that the issue is not 'operator error'.

[seiko1347]

Wow - wonderful descriptive response Chrissaf! I do have access to a Multimeter (no.1 son was a hardware engineer before moving into software development). Something to share with you all - I did a bit of trawling the web and would be interested to know if you think this may be the answer. The 08 shunter has three pairs of wheels and the middle pair appear to be connected to a cog, which is visible underneath the unit. I found a reference dating back to 2010 that talked about an 08 shunter where the cog and the worm screw (?) did not mesh and therefore, there was no drive to the wheels. I wonder if the low hum I was hearing could be the worm screw, which must be inside the unit with the motor, is turning but unable to mesh with the cog. And if that is the case, is it repairable. Thanks for your continued support.

[Going Spare]

Yes, if the worm or wormwheel are damaged, they can be replaced. There should be a maintenance sheet for the loco included in the set documents showing how to separate the body and chassis to check.

[Fishmanoz]

Just for a little clarity, I just searched R1236 to find it to be the catalogue number, not for an 08, but for the Mixed Freight DCC set.

So I’m assuming you have the 08 shunter for this set. As such, it is fitted with a 4-pin socket for the 4-wire version of the R8249 decoder (someone will give you the correct catalogue number).

It is easy to remove the body from this loco. There is a screw at one end and a lug from the chassis fitting into the body at the other. Undo the screw and slide the body off. now it will be easy to see if the motor is seated correctly and the cog and gear are meshing or not, or if there is any damage here.

[Jupiter 1707822591]

No screw involved .

The body clips on .At the rear of the shunter a hole where the clip sits .

Press the clip in and separate the body .

[Going Spare]

Because tackling the class 08 cab-end retainers first means disengaging two lugs at the same time, the method recommended by Hornby is to unscrew and remove the coupling at the radiator end of the body and then gently lever the body away from the chassis by means of a bladed screwdriver releasing the one black retaining lug visible at the top of the bufferbeam at that end. The front end of the chassis will then drop away, disengaging from the adaptor clip under the cab in the process.

Body replacement is the reverse of the above, making sure the adaptor clip is correctly located in the cab.

As the chassis is mounted the other way round (and without the adaptor clip) under steam locomotive bodies, the procedure is the same for them but starting at the rear of the loco under the bunker. Trying to release the twin clips under the smokebox first invariably breaks one or both of them.

[ColinB]

And of course, in true Hornby style that is not currently available as a spare part. They have been sold out for ages.

[Going Spare]

Perhaps so, but with a little ingenuity and a quick internet search, wormwheel L5714 on an axle as assembly X1849 plus worm L5715 gives you both components.

[seiko1347]

I am amazed by how helpful and knowledgeable you good people are – thank you all. I cannot follow up your advice for a week or so but will get to it soon as possible. Does this thread stay open for a while?   Fishmanoz – you are correct. My description was based on what I saw on eBay when I bought it. I have subsequently found out it came as part of the Mixed Freight set.  

[Fishmanoz]

There’s currently no time limit on threads so coming back in a week is no problem. We sometimes see 10 yr old threads dredged up.