LION (L&MR)

[81F]

Can anyone tell me what couplings the L&MR LION has byt more importantly if it has NEM pockets as I would want to fit either Hornby wide or medium couplings so that it is compatible with my other stock (A couple of Triang Rocket Coaches mostly)?

[5Dublo2]

The Hornby Group 1 locos (Rocket and Lion) use solid representations of chain couplings that hook onto/into the rolling stock. They do not have NEM sockets (but then neither do the current Hornby coaches and wagons sold to go with them)

If you want a Lion model with more traditional coupling mounts (which I believe will be in NEM pockets) then you will have to wait for their competitor to release their model (which is due for release int 2023)

[What About The Bee]

Hi 81F 👋

I've the modern Rocket (R3809 R3810 R3956) and Lion (R30232) in my fleet.

The coupling arrangement is an upright post upon which you place a rigid "finescale coupling", as Hornby call it. Its a bit of plastic with a hole on either end, to fit over those corresponding pegs. I have no trouble with getting them coupled, but some reviewers have reported difficulty. Others have replaced the plastic chain with an actual chain.

I've successfully adapted the Accurascale magnetic chain couplings to the pegs by simply placing a loop of fine steel wire over the peg, the steel bent to a slight curve. The Accurascale magnet holds quite readily to this. I've pulled 9 Chaldrons without coupling failure. 9 is about as many as Lion can pull, some wheel slip was noticed. Rocket could not pull 9 at all.

If you desire a tension lock, then you must revert to an older Rocket (R346 R796). I have this in my fleet as well.

The Lion model that Rapido have on offer will (theoretically) be available to purchase by March. I do have one on order, and will put it head to head with the Hornby version. One of the two will named "Tiger" LMR58, the lesser known Lion twin.

The Rapido specification includes a NEM pocket.

Bee

Edit to add: Hornby numbers given as reference, I do not have all three modern Rocket sets! Rocket is the same in each, only the consist changes.

R3809 is a throwback: first class coaches Times, Experience and Despatch. Red Box.

R3810 offers first class coaches Globe, Renown, Wellington. Yellow Box.

R3956 offers First Class Coach Treasurer, a Third open blue carriage and the Royal Mail Carriage.

The Liverpool and Manchester Railway ran Royal Mail consists strictly as express. The seating in the real Royal Mail carriages was better than first class, two abreast seating instead of three.

[What About The Bee]

Your question was to specifically adapt the older carriages, R621, to the modern Hornby Rocket.

As the early days of the LMR were filled with carriage experiments, I too see no issues with adapting the older carriages (R651) to the modern locomotives. They can easily and ready be explained thusly. Yet I see it the other way around. Remove those gigantic, horrid tension lock couplings and replace them with a peg, suitable for the fine scale couplings.

Lion was a feight locomotive. Lion only pulled passenger consists in the 1930s. The 1930s photographs do not represent actual LMR historical facts. Hornby Lion R30232 comes with representative 1930s carriages and can be extended with R40371. R40371 includes first class carriage Huskinson and two third class carriages. All use pegs.

1) Third Class coaches were actually 2nd in the initial days of the LMR. As the passengers complained of burnt clothing, the carriages were swiftly enclosed.  The Ackermann prints show this.

2) Third class only came very late in LMR history, the LMR resisting the call from government. Further, these 2nd & 3rd coaches all had seating. Hornby have duplicated the third class carriages produced in the 1930s, not to the existing plans by Stephenson. The 1930s coaches were strictly an impression not a reproduction of 1830s carriages.

3) Contrary to what R3956 shows, Third class coaches would never have run with a Royal Mail carriage. Third and Second class were on local consists, stopping as required to pick up and drop off passengers. First Class and Royal Mail consists stopped only at Parkside for watering.

4) Freight consists were required to yield to any and all passenger traffic. They could not leave the stations ahead of a passenger consist, and were required to get into sidings to permit them to pass.

5) In the early days, freight consists had a speed restriction of 8 mph. Passenger consists moved at an astonishing, for the time, 16 mph!! These speeds were measured by arrival times, with fines applied to engineers who violated them.

[What About The Bee]

I've just thought of a way to adapt the new Rocket and Lion to the old rolling stock.

Similar to my Accurascale solution, put a loop of fine steel wire on the locomotive and a magnet on the tension lock of the R651 carriages.

The magnet will hold both pieces of steel!

Bee

[What About The Bee]

Magnet not required but would improve reliability. Lion R30232 pictured with old First Class Coach.